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I believe everyone makes very fine points, however, ask anyone here or from a different area within Florida state or outside of it, and when people think of Miami or South Florida, they think of South Beach and Cubans.
True, we do not speak the same English as the Irish or Scottish or English, but it is still English nonetheless, just a different accent. Down here, it is still Spanish but with a different accent that's only discernible by people who would know or who even care.
I maintain that Miami / South Florida is a whole other universe. Moreover, even with numerous different nationalities, there is a predominate culture that stifles diversity. That is not meant as an insult; I refer to the style of dress, the cars driven, work ethic, values, and goals rather than race or ethnicity.
"South America is extremely diverse from peachy white to a japanese brazilian."
LOL see, I gotta laugh because now skin tone or tan or heritage from the 1800's [in another country to boot]....is diversity? See, for citizens of the USA we really REALLY could care less. No offense just saying, to the general population of people who love to dissect this stuff. I guess if you live in Brazil it's a big deal, who knows.
Diversity is becoming like porn, you MIGHT "know it when you see it"....which in essence renders the whole discussion subjective and moot to most people.
I mean really, are the USA citizens supposed to give a rat's butt about identifying a category of person who is Brazilian of Japanese origin? I "get" the whole history of coffee slavery (even though for the Japanese it was VOLUNTARY I believe)....down there but I feel it's really an EXTREME point of view to almost demand that we care and develop some sort of expertise regarding the sociological history of every single sub culture in the entire world.
The intent of the whole concept of "diversity" was it's genesis in equal oopportunity...to prevent illegal treatment of any certain category of human by persons of authority such as employers, politicians, government and housing opportunities. It was preceded by the Affirmative Action laws in the 70's that prohibited employers from refusing jobs to females and blacks. The idea was not some hippy idea to promote the US to turn into other countries.
NOT to try and make our lives a Jeopardy game.
Obviously people consider forcing Spanish to be the primary language in a US city to be fine, and diverse because it feeds a certain agenda of bilingualism a la Quebec. Major difference Quebec has always been that way, Miami has NOT. When spanish speakers tell Anglos on this forum "You may be considered a tourist if you speak English in Miami ha ha " you cannot tell me Miami is diverse. The ha ha part is quite significant too.
Hmmmm maybe we should make Wilton Manors the gay city. Unless you are actively gay you are not welcome and perceived as a tourist. In order to get food and lodging you have to act gay, have to have a same sex partner, have to have a pro gay political position. yeah, that'll work.
Getting way too much into it. One of my closest friend is a Japanese immigrant that lived in brazil since almost birth and moved here years ago and he considers himself a proud Brazilian, they didnt stop immigrating decades ago. But thats not even the point of what I wrote, so I guess you'll take what you want.
---------------
"So much for the dream of "Melting Pot" in USA. The immigrants won't allow it LOL"
I understand what your saying but its not that we wont allow it its simply that Latin America comes to Miami/ South Florida.
I live in Doral if I didnt speak Spanish fluently I would have a brutal time and would have left by now. I used to live in PA .
Thus in time I would leave no one forced me to leave in the true sense but there would come a point I would say enough of this.
If you want to say the politicians here have a vested interest in people NOT speaking English thus they wont look at other candidates ,atleast limited choices than I agree.
If you want to say the Hispanic media has the same interest as they do not want to lose viewers than I also agree.
The immigrants are simply coming here most speak Spanish and no real reason to learn English as they simply dont have to .
Even bilingual Hispanics who come from other states stay for awhile realize its not for them and go somewhere else.
People will do what they can ,take the easiest path thats just human nature in Miami no real need to learn English . Yes this is N.America and English is our language but if you dont have to than you dont have to .
Is it wrong because it divides the country and its disrespectfull to a country that has given you a home ? . Yes IMO it is but reality is reality .
Luiso, thank you for your thoughtful post. You sound like a lovely person and would "fit in" anywhere in the country. (yes we have Spanish speaking citizens elsewhere LOL).
Your insightful point about people taking the easiest path is very important. I understand that. No significant accomplishments were made by this lazy mentality. It's everywhere in the US not just in your population. My husband was a Greek immigrant with almost no English and totally immersed himself in our culture and through sheer determination and will acquired a masters and PhD in an Ivy League school, moved around the country to different states for job opportunities and now is a respected elder in his field, in demand at conferences around the world and lecturing thousands of people....still with his pathetic accent because he never worked on it LOL but everyone thinks it's cute and they don't care.
Some immigrants really DO believe in the American dream, others just want to take advantage of real estate and turn our country into a form of their former one, living shoulder to shoulder, by the way doesnt even bother them since where they came from was so much worse.
But famous people who actually accomplished things failed thousands of times while TRYING. Thomas Edison worked on a thousand filaments before he found one that made the lightbulb. The guy who invented Hershey chocolate had too many failed businesses before that one to count.
I sincerely hope that you get the opportunity to visit the other magnificent states in our country. The breathtaking mountains out West, the beauty of the open land and Big Sky in the north, the unbelievable color of the light in New Mexico - an artist's mecca for over three centuries, the 2000 year old 400 foot tall Redwoods in California, The Grand Canyon and other unbelievable national parks, great lakes of Wisconsin and Michigan, Miles of corn and country life in the mid west, events like "National Mustard Day" and other simple American traditions....Broadway shows in NYC, the fantastic colorful beauty of fall in the North East.......
You will be welcomed anywhere, and I guarantee you ...you'll wonder, like I do, why so many people chose to live like rats running in a maze in a 35 square mile radius known as Miami where there is no interest in anything or anybody other than Miami and arguing about stupid things....and chosing to bash America and Americans who are living their lives not bothering anybody down there.....
Last edited by runswithscissors; 07-15-2008 at 05:35 AM..
"South America is extremely diverse from peachy white to a japanese brazilian."
LOL see, I gotta laugh because now skin tone or tan or heritage from the 1800's [in another country to boot]....is diversity? See, for citizens of the USA we really REALLY could care less. No offense just saying, to the general population of people who love to dissect this stuff. I guess if you live in Brazil it's a big deal, who knows.
Diversity is becoming like porn, you MIGHT "know it when you see it"....which in essence renders the whole discussion subjective and moot to most people.
I mean really, are the USA citizens supposed to give a rat's butt about identifying a category of person who is Brazilian of Japanese origin? I "get" the whole history of coffee slavery (even though for the Japanese it was VOLUNTARY I believe)....down there but I feel it's really an EXTREME point of view to almost demand that we care and develop some sort of expertise regarding the sociological history of every single sub culture in the entire world.
The intent of the whole concept of "diversity" was it's genesis in equal oopportunity...to prevent illegal treatment of any certain category of human by persons of authority such as employers, politicians, government and housing opportunities. It was preceded by the Affirmative Action laws in the 70's that prohibited employers from refusing jobs to females and blacks. The idea was not some hippy idea to promote the US to turn into other countries.
NOT to try and make our lives a Jeopardy game.
Obviously people consider forcing Spanish to be the primary language in a US city to be fine, and diverse because it feeds a certain agenda of bilingualism a la Quebec. Major difference Quebec has always been that way, Miami has NOT. When spanish speakers tell Anglos on this forum "You may be considered a tourist if you speak English in Miami ha ha " you cannot tell me Miami is diverse. The ha ha part is quite significant too.
Hmmmm maybe we should make Wilton Manors the gay city. Unless you are actively gay you are not welcome and perceived as a tourist. In order to get food and lodging you have to act gay, have to have a same sex partner, have to have a pro gay political position. yeah, that'll work.
It's interesting how someone like Runwithscissors complains about the lack of diversity in area, but then when anyone points out that there is diversity in area, she simply ridicules it, because she has created her own definition of what culture and race means. To her, the various Latin American groups in the area--regardless of whether they are white, black, mestizo, or from whatever country they come from--are just one group of people. PERIOD.
So, I guess that a, Ashkenazi Cuban Jew from Miami Beach is the same as a Nigaraguan Mestizo from Little Havana [that is now overwhelming Central American by the way] who is the same as an Argentine of Italian ancestry who is the same as a Dominican of black ancestry who is the same as a Brazilian of Japanese ancestry, who is the Same as a Spaniard of Catalan or Galician ancestry, who is the same as a Puerto Rican mulatto, etc..
As long as they come from South of the Border or speak Spanish or Portuguese, they're just one group and any attempt to try to see or understand their very real cultural and racial differences is laughable.
Perhaps Runwithscissors should visit a major university and present her theory to their Anthopology Department.
Luiso, thank you for your thoughtful post. You sound like a lovely person and would "fit in" anywhere in the country. (yes we have Spanish speaking citizens elsewhere LOL).
Your insightful point about people taking the easiest path is very important. I understand that. No significant accomplishments were made by this lazy mentality. It's everywhere in the US not just in your population. My husband was a Greek immigrant with almost no English and totally immersed himself in our culture and through sheer determination and will acquired a masters and PhD in an Ivy League school, moved around the country to different states for job opportunities and now is a respected elder in his field, in demand at conferences around the world and lecturing thousands of people....still with his pathetic accent because he never worked on it LOL but everyone thinks it's cute and they don't care.
Some immigrants really DO believe in the American dream, others just want to take advantage of real estate and turn our country into a form of their former one, living shoulder to shoulder, by the way doesnt even bother them since where they came from was so much worse.
But famous people who actually accomplished things failed thousands of times while TRYING. Thomas Edison worked on a thousand filaments before he found one that made the lightbulb. The guy who invented Hershey chocolate had too many failed businesses before that one to count.
I sincerely hope that you get the opportunity to visit the other magnificent states in our country. The breathtaking mountains out West, the beauty of the open land and Big Sky in the north, the unbelievable color of the light in New Mexico - an artist's mecca for over three centuries, the 2000 year old 400 foot tall Redwoods in California, The Grand Canyon and other unbelievable national parks, great lakes of Wisconsin and Michigan, Miles of corn and country life in the mid west, events like "National Mustard Day" and other simple American traditions....Broadway shows in NYC, the fantastic colorful beauty of fall in the North East.......
You will be welcomed anywhere, and I guarantee you ...you'll wonder, like I do, why so many people chose to live like rats running in a maze in a 35 square mile radius known as Miami where there is no interest in anything or anybody other than Miami and arguing about stupid things....and chosing to bash America and Americans who are living their lives not bothering anybody down there.....
Hmmm... How interesting. So, I take it from your little aside about how some immigrants still "DO believe in the American dream," that Cuban Americans do not? Was it not the "American Dream" to come to this country and succeed? Wasn't the "American Dream" the famous Horatio Alger rag to riches stories that we used to read about? Or just like you redefined what diversity is, are you also redefining what the "American Dream" means? Because if anything stands out about the Cuban migration to the United States, it's the number of rag to riches stories that abound, the number of Cubans who arrived here penniless and working two and three jobs made enough money to open up a business, or going to night school were able to get licensed in their former professions and start working here, again, as teachers, accountants, engineers, doctors, etc..
Just to respond to the original post, I don't think Miami is too diverse. When it comes down to it, we don't have too many people who aren't white, black, or Hispanic. Yes, I realize that countries in Latin America each have their own culture, dialect, and historical background that make them different from the others. Yet there's too many similarities between them to really make them stand out against each other. By the same token, I wouldn't consider myself (white American of Irish descent), a Scotsman, a Brit, and an Australian to be a very diverse group for the same reason.
Just to respond to the original post, I don't think Miami is too diverse. When it comes down to it, we don't have too many people who aren't white, black, or Hispanic. Yes, I realize that countries in Latin America each have their own culture, dialect, and historical background that make them different from the others. Yet there's too many similarities between them to really make them stand out against each other. By the same token, I wouldn't consider myself (white American of Irish descent), a Scotsman, a Brit, and an Australian to be a very diverse group for the same reason.
Really? I've met quite a few real Brits in my days and at least the ones that I've spoken to would take umbrage to hear anyone say that they are not very different from an Irishman.
That said, your analogy is a bit off, because Scotland and [at least Northern Ireland] has been part of Great Britain now for centuries and Australians are mostly descendants of British, Scottish and Irish immigrants, so that the similarities between all of these countries is much greater than that between over 20 countries in Latin American full of people who often come from ENTIRELY different racial backgrounds: everything from full-blood Indians to European whites to blacks and mulattoes, everything from Catholics to Jews to Buddhists.
In fact, the only real connection that most Latin Americans have is that [with the exception of Brazil] they where settled by Spain and most of them speak Spanish. Notice that I say "most" of them, because there are tribes in Mexico, Central America and in the Andes that DON'T SPEAK SPANISH.
Broward County does not even have a single Hispanic dominated community even south of Ft. Lauderdale (let's see, Hollywood is mostly white although parts are a total melting pot, Pembroke Pines lacks a majority but whites dominate, and they even have Asians out there so that's diverse, Miramar is black dominant with no majority, Weston is white dominant with no majority, Davie is solidly white majority, Cooper City is solidly white majority). Yes there is a large "Hispanic" population since you all consider it a race but the most "Hispanic" city is Weston and even there non-Hispanic groups dominate (mostly white not of Hispanic origin), and there are blacks, Asian Indians, Brazilians (to the wonderfully ignorant crowd here, they don't speak Spanish so they aren't Hispanic) and the county as a whole is white dominated with blacks in second place, and Hispanic are in a not that distant third and they generally live amongst each other, so I guess that makes it diverse. Also NE Dade is plenty diverse, although yes south of the Golden Glades it becomes what the above poster described and it becomes segregated until you get to South Dade.
Oh, and Fort Lauderdale proper was 11.2% Hispanic versus a 14.8% national average, although it can tend to be segregated there. Also, use this website to look up any other city/county and research away! Fort Lauderdale city, Florida - Fact Sheet - American FactFinder
Such a race obsession on here especially with "Hispanics" whom aren't even a race. Wonder why this thread didn't get deleted if I got mine deleted for trying to get some basic, non personal background information though a poll. Yet this total ignorance is allowed.
I know this is almots one year old .... but it is a superb post !!!
It's interesting how someone like Runwithscissors complains about the lack of diversity in area, but then when anyone points out that there is diversity in area, she simply ridicules it, because she has created her own definition of what culture and race means. To her, the various Latin American groups in the area--regardless of whether they are white, black, mestizo, or from whatever country they come from--are just one group of people. PERIOD.
So, I guess that a, Ashkenazi Cuban Jew from Miami Beach is the same as a Nigaraguan Mestizo from Little Havana [that is now overwhelming Central American by the way] who is the same as an Argentine of Italian ancestry who is the same as a Dominican of black ancestry who is the same as a Brazilian of Japanese ancestry, who is the Same as a Spaniard of Catalan or Galician ancestry, who is the same as a Puerto Rican mulatto, etc..
As long as they come from South of the Border or speak Spanish or Portuguese, they're just one group and any attempt to try to see or understand their very real cultural and racial differences is laughable.
Perhaps Runwithscissors should visit a major university and present her theory to their Anthopology Department.
Rayarena ... "Runswithscissors " post was made almost six months ago .. so do not take it to heart ... and if you read he/shes previous posts you will notice negative slants to all of them with a particular emphasis on singling out Hispanics .. this person tries to hide his/ her racist tendencies behind long winded rambling posts thinly veiled as fact . Do not pay attention to this person and enjoy the holidays !!
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