are cuban neighborhoods safe in miami (Carol City: live in, yard, expense)

[Marlin331]

JBravo, I thought it was pretty common knowledge. Prior to 1959, segregation and racism were just as bad, if not worse, in Cuba than they were in the American South. I once heard a story about Batista (mix of white, indio, and black) entering an all-white social club in the late 1950's - the lights were turned off and he was asked to leave because despite his powerful political position, he was not white and thus entered in violation of the club's rules. Black and mulatto Cubans are undoubtedly in better shape today; racism is all but gone (still exists to an extent) compared to how it was 50 years ago.

People who have been to Cuba and observed the racial makeup of the current population (2/3 black and mulatto) are shocked to learn how snow-white the Cuban population is in Miami. Though these differences were perpetuated by the "white flight" / "brain drain" exodus that happened throughout the 1960's and 1970's (by the 1980's more mixed Cubans were going to the US), I think that part of the reason the population of mulatto Cubans has risen so much over the years if because it is now seen as more acceptable to mix. Back in 1959 mixing was very taboo, even for poor, white "guajiro" farmers out in the country.

[UrbaneAspects]

Originally Posted by jbravo

I would be very wary... Cubans are very, very sneaky.
Wouldn't trust one, wouldn't want to know one.

LOL.........................

[LeftHook]

Bravo, Crisp just beat me to the punch regarding pre-1959 Cuba. Btw my family (we are black),left back in the 30's. In fact, I was born right after Castro took power. To make a long story short, black Cubanos were catching pure hell and as Crisp said: discrimination of the highest order. We blacks could not work in nor even enter resorts Casinos', beaches, pools, restaurants, and many other venues. AT LEAST in the deep south, they didn't mind you being a "servant". In Cuba, they didn't even want us to be "flunkies!!!".

Castro was a devil, but black Cubanos are much better off now, than when Batista was in power, and if any white Cubano disagrees, he or she is a bald-face liar!

[jbravo]

Originally Posted by crisp444

I once heard a story about Batista (mix of white, indio, and black) entering an all-white social club in the late 1950's - the lights were turned off and he was asked to leave because despite his powerful political position, he was not white and thus entered in violation of the club's rules.

Yes, he was not allowed to join the Country Club. This I knew.

Originally Posted by crisp444

Black and mulatto Cubans are undoubtedly in better shape today; racism is all but gone (still exists to an extent) compared to how it was 50 years ago.

Agreed.


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Here's where respectfully I do not agree:

Originally Posted by crisp444

JBravo, I thought it was pretty common knowledge. Prior to 1959, segregation and racism were just as bad, if not worse, in Cuba than they were in the American South.

I just lived for 3 years in Mount Dora, Lake County, Fl. This is TRUE South.
A very isolated society until very recently.
There were maybe a handful of Cubans around. The area I lived in is 92% white non-Hispanic. All friends where non-Cuban, in fact I had no Hispanic friends.
Beautiful hilly country to motorcycle around.
Anyways, common knowledge that the Sheriff during the 50s-60s and 70s would kill blacks "trying to escape custody."
The county today is very different, black children and white children play together and interracial couples hold hands.
I spoke to a somewhat elderly black guy who grew up in Eustis and he told me "I've seen changes I never expected to happen in my lifetime."
So here's my point: were blacks / mulattos killed in Cuba during the 50s as part of public policy?
Because according to everyone I spoke with in Lake County, this was the case in Central Fl.

Originally Posted by crisp444

People who have been to Cuba and observed the racial makeup of the current population (2/3 black and mulatto) are shocked to learn how snow-white the Cuban population is in Miami. Though these differences were perpetuated by the "white flight" / "brain drain" exodus that happened throughout the 1960's and 1970's (by the 1980's more mixed Cubans were going to the US), I think that part of the reason the population of mulatto Cubans has risen so much over the years if because it is now seen as more acceptable to mix. Back in 1959 mixing was very taboo, even for poor, white "guajiro" farmers out in the country.

Yes, amazing on how History turned out.

Originally Posted by LeftHook

Bravo, Crisp just beat me to the punch regarding pre-1959 Cuba. Btw my family (we are black),left back in the 30's. In fact, I was born right after Castro took power. To make a long story short, black Cubanos were catching pure hell and as Crisp said: discrimination of the highest order. We blacks could not work in nor even enter resorts Casinos', beaches, pools, restaurants, and many other venues. AT LEAST in the deep south, they didn't mind you being a "servant". In Cuba, they didn't even want us to be "flunkies!!!".

Castro was a devil, but black Cubanos are much better off now, than when Batista was in power, and if any white Cubano disagrees, he or she is a bald-face liar!

Well, I have to respect what you say.
Maybe I am being naive.
I played dominoes for years in Calle 8s domino park.
Sometimes when a mulatto player would join the game, someone would say "no blacks allowed at this game" and all would take it as a joke.
The same mulatto would say "That white girl really has a great a**" we would look and probably agree.
Point is I never witnessed racial tension and for me a Cuban was a Cuban, black, white or mulatto.
Even my Mom told me many times that mulattos were the "prettiest" race.
Although whiter than cotton, she was always very proud that Cuban mulattos were so handsome and mulattas were beautiful.
She admired beauty, she was a real knockout herself.
My mom was invited to an all-black graduation ball in Havana for a close classmate of hers at the University.
This was a great honor which she accepted and went with her father as an escort, a very formal affair.
As you probably know, this was an honor paid to my mother because whites were not allowed in these clubs without being invited.
My father was for the revolution because he saw many injustices.
I offer the above so that you see where I come from.
With that I add: given all those that I have spoken with, racism was MUCH worse in Fl than in Cuba during the 50s.
An interracial affair was suicide in Central Fl in the 50s for a black man, it was heavily frowned upon in Cuba. That's a big difference.
By the by, I had family in the country as well, "guajiros" and yes, to be honest, a small part of my family on my mother's side were disgustingly rich.

[LeftHook]

Bravo: Please excuse my remark of 'bald-faced liar". I said that because I get so sick and tired of ex-cubans on Spanish t.v. hollerin' and cussing about "that damn Fidel". White Cubanos had it "going on" in Cuba and Castro dismantled their prosperity. I don't blame them one bit- They lost a lot! But by the same token black Cubanos had everything to gain because we were peed-on, spit-on, and stepped-on. I hate to repeat myself, but even though Castro has been an evil dictator, blacks- I repeat blacks had the playing feel leveled for them and they have NOT forgotten!.

White exiles convieniently won't mention this, and will argue to the death about it, but it is true. In fact, many of the white Cubanos had ancestors who were slave owners in the past. I hate to get racial. However there's two sides to the Castro issue and I'm trying to tell the black side. I'm 49yo, and I can only speak about what my ancestors told me they went through.

I can't talk to the average exile because there's too much screaming and yelling (*#@^*#! Lol) They think I'm condoning Castro and I'm not!. I have black friends who were thrown in prison by Castro!!

[jbravo]

I respect what you say and the hysteria of Cubans talking about Castro is well known to me.
Guess what I am saying is twofold:
1st. It was worse in Fl.
2nd. If things improved as much in Central Fl (see previous post) as they did, why would things NOT have improved in Cuba for blacks/mulattos WITHOUT Castro?

Let me be clear, as you can see from my previous post, I do not come from a racist background and therefore I may be naive.
However, I do realize that three things that you say are true:
1st. Blacks / mulattos are grateful to Castro (makes sense)
2nd. Cubans speak a lot of bull*^^# when talking about politics.
3rd. There was racism.

On this last point it is my opinion that it is easy to have two assumptions that are false:
1st That it was better here in FL (this assumption is false, any quick research / discussions with old timers would disabuse you of that fallacy.)
2nd (This is really much more subtle) The assumption that WITHOUT Castro things would not have changed is also false
(There is no way to verify this, but I beleive that things would have changed for the better for blacks/mulattos in Cuba without Castro. There is just no way for me to believe that my parents were the lone exception to the rule.

Remember, Castro was but one of 1/2 dozen different revolutionary factions in Cuba in 1959. He murdered his own rivals.
What would those have done?
Castro betrayed the revolution, the revolution did not betray Cuba.

[MoverandShaker2004]

Most people want their own house; Castro wanted his own country... To think that this happened 90 miles from Key West, and 220 Miles from "America's fourth richest city" - according to some - is amazing.

[garxhap]

I believe Castro has accomplished some worthwhile things, but I think it is truly sad how much more he could have done if he hadn't been so prideful and arrogant. A lot of things he has done have been truly stupid.

[Keeper]

Please get back on topic regarding the safety of cuban neighborhoods.

If you want to discuss Castro's Cuba make a new thread.

[jbravo]

Originally Posted by jbravo

I would be very wary... Cubans are very, very sneaky.
Wouldn't trust one, wouldn't want to know one.

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___Therefore...
___There are NO safe Cuban neighborhoods.
___None.
___Period.
___End of story.
___Finito.


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