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Interesting reading. Some great commentary. Not sure if anyone has mentioned Hurricane Andrew. As I recall, many of the so-called "Americanos" or American Caucasians who were still in Miami after Andrew took their insurance money and headed for the greener pastures of Central Florida and Atlanta. Andrew jump started the explosive west Broward growth changing traffic patterns, with many Hispanics moving to Broward to live in neighborhoods without bars on every window and door. Among our struggles as a country to compete in the global economy, I think we will definitely need to figure out how to get multi-culturalism right. These patterns repeat themselves throughout the country, and I do blame our government. Bottom line - the Americanos could have stayed, but it was easier to leave. Having grown up in South Miami, and worked the crime beat in Opa Locka, Carol City, and Hialeah - as beautiful as Miami is, I was happy to move to safer environs, although safety is somewhat of an illusion and all about perception. I've been robbed in Miami, Orlando, Louisville, and Minneapolis. Thanks again for the great reading. I've been studying Canadian patterns of immigration and multiculturalism as a national identity. Very different from the Miami model of US immigration and multiculturalism.
This thread topic came to me while reading some of the posts in the recent "I Love Miami" thread that state the pretty standard complaints about South Florida, especially those of the "like living in a foreign country" variety.
The two events mentioned in the thread title are often cited as the two most tangible reasons why the Anglo middle-class evacuated Miami-Dade County throughout the 80s. I'd be intrigued to hear, especially from those who I believe to be native Miamians from what I've read on here, what they feel Dade County specifically would be like if history had been different.
I'm trying to conceptualize a Miami in 2008 that would be demographically close to what it was in the 1970s, which is admittedly very hard to picture, but I imagine that's somewhat what it would be like.
If the main Hispanic population in Dade County would have remained "Pedro Pan"-era Cubans and their Miami-born offspring, with no Mariel or the subsequent mid-90s "raft wave", would the word have spread around Central and South America that Miami was the place to immigrate to because of the predominance of the Spanish culture here?
If the majority of the Anglos had never left between 1980 and 1985 because the two aforementioned events never happened, would there have been as much room for so much immigration anyhow?
Would we see a much higher quality of service, etc., and would Miami be considered much more of an "American town"? Was it considered as such during the 1970s, when primarily the Cubans who arrived in the mid-to-late 60s and were very open to assimilation made up the Hispanic population in the county?
For the record, I am 36, born and raised here and still residing in Miami. Both of my parents were Cubans who came here in the late 60s. I remember the Miami of my childhood (the 70s) being considerably different from any other time after that, especially the post-1999 era.
I would be very interested in any and all opinions on this matter and am really hoping to see some of the forum regulars chime in on this one.
Miami would be populated by native Americans and dark skinned Americans.
Cubans are isolated from the rest of the world its an opression you will never understand. How can u fight when its a struggle just to eat and survive everyday. only people that have guns there are the army. its like asking the plantation slaves in the 1800 to overthrow the government.
This quote I find very telling. To try and assimilate a culture who has to fight, steal, make back door deals, to feed ones family into a western culture isnt working. The Cubans (Mariel) especially, came to this country and America opened up their arms to them. What did the Cubans do in Return? They continued to operate here as they did in Cuba. When the Miami State attorneys office investigated the City of Miami's code Enforcement department, they found every one of the inspectors were on the take, EVERYONE!..you cant do business on the up and up in Dade County if a Cuban has his hand in it. Now its just so prevalent, its common knowledge and the entire city has had to adpat to it. Now you add on top of that Every Insurance company that does business in the South Florida area recognizes that fact, and realizes that any Cuban inspector who had his name on any building is NOT UP TO CODE and the entire community has to pay for this crap. The largest fraud ever committed against Medicade was perpetrated by a Ring of Cubans, who do you Latins think pays for that? No Miami is so infested with Cubans who slithered into every branch of Government, every aspect of building and zoning, every position in city county and state government... we get so screwed its pathetic..and no one will say crap if they had a mouthful...then everynow and then the justice department has to come in and attempt to clean house, but the corruption, mismanagement is so complete, it will never be a truly functioning city. But the icing on the Cake is for the Cubans to stand in your face with the "I dont Care" or the "You can do nothing about it" mentality... yea the Cubans a real great culture alright, ranks right there with the Haitans. The Columbians, Venezualians know how to assimilate into America and have always been educated and contributing members of America......
If the main Hispanic population in Dade County would have remained "Pedro Pan"-era Cubans and their Miami-born offspring, with no Mariel or the subsequent mid-90s "raft wave", would the word have spread around Central and South America that Miami was the place to immigrate to because of the predominance of the Spanish culture here?
My opinion, the older Cubans always want to blame the newer generations of Cubans and other nationalities for Miami's shortcomings.
My experience? I wouldn't put those Pedro Pan Cubans on a pedestal. The worst people I have known in South Florida (dishonest, racist and plain evil) have been Cubans that came before the Mariel. Some are still low income individuals, some have progressed but regardless of income, they share the same traits. I just think we would still have the same amount of corruption that we have now.
My opinion, the older Cubans always want to blame the newer generations of Cubans and other nationalities for Miami's shortcomings.
My experience? I wouldn't put those Pedro Pan Cubans on a pedestal. The worst people I have known in South Florida (dishonest, racist and plain evil) have been Cubans that came before the Mariel. Some are still low income individuals, some have progressed but regardless of income, they share the same traits. I just think we would still have the same amount of corruption that we have now.
You don't seem to be a big fan of Cubans/Cuban-Americans, and this isn't the first time you have written about it. What are all of these bad experiences you've had, and where have you had them?
You don't seem to be a big fan of Cubans/Cuban-Americans, and this isn't the first time you have written about it. What are all of these bad experiences you've had, and where have you had them?
Unfortunately, I have to agree with her. My own experiences of dealing with Miami Cubans has generally not been favorable. Unfortunately (again), Miami is a Cuban city now. Unless you're Cuban or well connected or just plain wealthy, you're going to find life in Miami to be *very* tough indeed.
Unfortunately, I have to agree with her. My own experiences of dealing with Miami Cubans has generally not been favorable. Unfortunately (again), Miami is a Cuban city now. Unless you're Cuban or well connected or just plain wealthy, you're going to find life in Miami to be *very* tough indeed.
Miami-Dade is about 62% "Hispanic" and less than half of "Hispanics" in Miami-Dade are Cuban or Cuban-American. This means that only about 30% of the population is Cuban or Cuban-American.
I'm sorry you've had bad experiences. I am confident, however, that if you were to spend time in middle class to upper class areas where most Cubans/Cuban-Americans arrived prior to the 1970's or were born in this country, you would have a better experience. There are bad eggs of all nationalities and ages, but South Florida's established Cuban and Cuban-American community is generally pretty successful and well-integrated with many other ethnities/nationalities in the area.
I'm 100% sure that the little Princess is from Colombia. Nonetheless, being Miami the second city with more Cubans in the world, the possibility to find rude Cubans is pretty high. Simple math! It’s like saying that all African-Americans live on welfare after visiting Detroit, MI where the 81.6 % of the population is Black.*
Princess, do not take it personally but I agree with Crisp, you often tend to generalize when it comes to Cubans but do not want to generalize when it comes to other Hispanics, LOL! But, hey, it is your opinion! The good news for you is that the Cuban or Cuban-American population in Miami is shrinking at an astonishing pace in comparison to the new South and Central American hordes. **
*US Census -Detroit.
** US Census-Miami-Dade County. Demographics Information.
I've been studying Canadian patterns of immigration and multiculturalism as a national identity. Very different from the Miami model of US immigration and multiculturalism.
MAJOR DIFFERENCES.
Up there, you basically have to have a PhD just to get into Canada, and they'll end up driving taxis or some other service type of job. Or you're wealthy and generally from Hong Kong or Taiwan (threat from mainland China before the turn over), and bring your wealth to Canada.
It seems their immigration is focused on bringing in your high education or your wealth.
The other HUGE difference with Canada, is that if a person gets into Canada, they can only petition for their immediate spouse. In the US, you can petition for your parents and kids...so generally one person gets it, then get their parents who get their parents...who get their kids...and one person in the U.S. ends up bringing about 50 people in with them legally. In Canada, 1 person in, means 1 other.
The argument is that the U.S. is more family-oriented for doing so..YET...1 immigrant in with 50 extended family members is REALLY different than the wealthy immigrant to Canada with his wife.
I'm 100% sure that the little Princess is from Colombia. Nonetheless, being Miami the second city with more Cubans in the world, the possibility to find rude Cubans is pretty high. Simple math! It’s like saying that all African-Americans live on welfare after visiting Detroit, MI where the 81.6 % of the population is Black.*
Princess, do not take it personally but I agree with Crisp, you often tend to generalize when it comes to Cubans but do not want to generalize when it comes to other Hispanics, LOL! But, hey, it is your opinion! The good news for you is that the Cuban or Cuban-American population in Miami is shrinking at an astonishing pace in comparison to the new South and Central American hordes. **
*US Census -Detroit.
** US Census-Miami-Dade County. Demographics Information.
Lolita/Princess is originally from Colombia and attended high school at Palmetto. If she lived in/still lives in that attendance zone (far east Kendall, Pinecrest, and Palmetto Bay) it would surprise me very much that she had bad experiences with the upper-middle and upper-class Cubans and their American-born and raised and completely assimilated children living in the area. I mean, we're not talking about a run-down area full of balseros in East Hialeah. But, to be fair, many of the recently-arrived Cubans (1990's/2000's) are good, hard-working people.
Mariel was as hard to swallow for established Miami-Dade Cubans in 1980 as it was for non-Hispanic whites living alongside them. Before that year, Cubans were perceived as a "model" immigrant group, as a large percentage of the 1959-1979 arrivals (and in the case of the Keys, arrivals from as early as 1898, when Cuba gained independence from Spain) had education, skills, and entrepreneurial spirit. Though they retained a distinct cultural/ethnic identity, they were becoming established as just another "hyphenated-American" white ethnic group that came before them (Irish, Italians, Portuguese, Spanish, Greeks, etc.) Mariel was really a blow to how Cubans were perceived not only in South Florida, but also around the country. First, some people began to associate all of the drugs, shootings, robberies, and shady dealings of the 1980's with Cubans, just as Italians had in earlier years been associated with organized crime. Next, Mariel changed how many Americans perceived the socioeconomic status and race of Cuban immigrants. Though Mariel and later waves brought many white and/or educated Cubans to South Florida, most of the arrivals were of a lower education level and darker hue (mulattos, mostly) than pre-1980 arrivals. This tainted Cubans' reputation as being a "model" immigrant group and made assimilation into the white American-majority more difficult, and this understandably angered and upset many, who distanced themselves from marielitos.
The arrival of several other Latin groups to Miami-Dade from the late 1980's to the present has really changed the demographics of some neighborhoods, and many people, including established Cubans and Cuban-Americans, are not thrilled with these changes. While some people recognize that many of the newcomers are hard-working and keep up their properties nicely, others have responded to their arrival by moving to areas that are traditionally Cuban/Cuban-American and Anglo.
The makings of a pan-Latin identity in Miami-Dade County - evidenced by the increase of use of the word "Latino" to label oneself and advertisements like the one of that radio station: "Latina, como tú y como yo" - is not embraced by many Cubans/Cuban-Americans. Many people are much more interested in their Cuban or in their American identities than in identifying with other "Latinos" with whom they may not have any kind of shared history. I was just having a conversation about this with a friend of mine and both of us agreed that we almost never heard the word "Latino" used when we were children and that only recently has it been popularized by the newcomers, especially by their youth. Again, many people are going to understandably resist this, and I am sure some feelings will be hurt along the way.
Last edited by Marlin331; 11-27-2009 at 10:19 PM..
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