Condo building collapses in Surfside..... (Miami, Bell: attorney, home, contractors)

[City Guy997S]

Originally Posted by logybogy

This is where it gets messy. Lawyers are going to love all the business since the litigation will go on for years. The board are the owners of the units, some of who may be dead buried under the concrete right now. So lawsuits against the board are self-defeating for unit owners but there are of course many guest of unit owners or renters in the building who are now dead and their families will have a claim. And if the board is liable, the insurance companies won't pay either and will sue.

If you are a unit owner, you will want to sue 87 Park or the roofing company or general contractor or someone you can blame.

The other theory in the NY Times was unpermitted unit renovations. If a unit owner took down the walls or something in their unit unpermitted, they may have taken out a support column beam and weakened the entire structure. That is also something to look at.

Again- unit owners are essentially suing themselves........zero sum game for them.

Unpermitted renovations, that is another interesting angle BUT now the proof is gone (pile of rubble). Unless they have specific video/photo evidence that penthouse A removed a support wall or something then that will be a tough angle to pursue and once policy limits are exhausted then no more money will come.

Roofing company will fold immediately, even if they are innocent they won't be able to finance the team of lawyers they will need to argue their case.

[SanyBelle]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

I watched over two hours of continuous helicopter coverage on YouTube, some of it at 2.5 x speed. I saw lots of activity in the uncollapsed part of the building, including rescue workers and dogs going in and out all the time. They seemed to be paying particular attention to the areas on the edge of the collapse zone. But in that two hours of video I didn't see even one person or a dog go anywhere near the debris pile, and I was looking. I think the rescue effort was being centered on the damaged parts of the building that didn't collapse completely.

You said you aren't a building engineer, are you possibly a search and rescue expert?

[City Guy997S]

I was involved in a condo lawsuit against the developer once over lack of reserves/building construction issues. 23 units, one local developer. Condo association spent 200K to lose.

1. No reserves- Builder said he kept the HOA dues low, if he charged more then the reserves would be higher! The residents didn't fund the reserves so that wasn't his fault.

2. Construction company was opened, built the condos, then closed after the final sale. NO assets/defunct corporation.

3. Construction issues were minor, but builder blamed the subcontractor trades taking shortcuts. Lawsuit was 8+ years after the project was finished. He also pushed back and said it wasn't maintained up to standards (partially true, they didn't have a budget so things didn't get addresses until they were a problem).

4. Final nail: He brought his tax returns, showed he actually lost money on the project!

[logybogy]

I know how this is going to go. The owners are going to sue everyone associated with 87 Park because that building construction seems to have disturbed the foundation of Champlain Towers. But the big money will be suing the city of Miami Beach who did all the permitting, inspections etc, and allowed the construction of 87 Park. Remember 87 Park is in Miami Beach and is 18 stories tall and Champlain Towers is Surfside which only allows 12 stories, who knows if the drilling for the concrete structural piles into the limerock from the bigger building contributed to issues with the damage to Champlain's foundation.

Then MB and 87 Park will say the building was poorly maintained or structurally defective because of hurricanes or whatever happened in 1981 and no maintained structure should have collapsed from normal construction work. Buildings all over the world are built close together and they don't collapse. It's going to be a god awful mess for years with all parties hiring their own engineers that say what they want to say in their defense.

Originally Posted by City Guy997S

Again- unit owners are essentially suing themselves........zero sum game for them.

Unpermitted renovations, that is another interesting angle BUT now the proof is gone (pile of rubble). Unless they have specific video/photo evidence that penthouse A removed a support wall or something then that will be a tough angle to pursue and once policy limits are exhausted then no more money will come.

Roofing company will fold immediately, even if they are innocent they won't be able to finance the team of lawyers they will need to argue their case.

[arctichomesteader]

Originally Posted by foodyum

Here is the relevant section of that study
https://news.fiu.edu/2021/fiu-profes...ace-radar-data

I have no opinion on the science but find the specific dot identified as that building eerily accurate.

If the issue is unstable soils under portions of the building, that situation could also exist with neighboring buildings too. I would imagine though everyone in the vicinity is going to be putting their buildings under a microscope for structural issues.

If, too, the soil is at issue, the land the building is on is essentially worthless as a building lot in the future.

[foodyum]

Originally Posted by arctichomesteader

If the issue is unstable soils under portions of the building, that situation could also exist with neighboring buildings too. I would imagine though everyone in the vicinity is going to be putting their buildings under a microscope for structural issues.

If, too, the soil is at issue, the land the building is on is essentially worthless as a building lot in the future.

I am no expert so can’t comment on the accuracy. If you read the study it specifically identifies that exact spot as the problem.
Doesn’t mean other spots - not studied- are not vulnerable.
Doesn’t mean that some remediation can’t be done to sure it up?

[Cloudy Dayz]

Originally Posted by popcorn247

Helicopter coverage would not show what it going on underground. I've seen a video (on MSNBC) several times that shows rescue workers underground, using tools to cut holes in the debris above them.

Yes, I have seen that too, and those operations were viewable from the helicopter. They are going in and out of the collapsed basement of the parts of the building that is still standing, along the edge of the collapse zone.

The last pictures I saw from this morning showed them using a cherry picker lift to search through or possibly remove debris from the collapsed side of the building. That tells me they are still not focusing on the main debris pile, at least yet, but rather on the partially collapsed parts of the building.

[OneDawg]

159 still unaccounted for. Apparently all the units had people living in them at the time of the collapse

[SanyBelle]

Originally Posted by Cloudy Dayz

The last pictures I saw from this morning showed them using a cherry picker lift to search through or possibly remove debris from the collapsed side of the building. That tells me they are still not focusing on the main debris pile, at least yet, but rather on the partially collapsed parts of the building.

I live in Miami and I am switching between local TV stations. Workers are on the rubble pile and moving pieces of debris out of the way.

[EngGirl]

Originally Posted by foodyum

Here is the relevant section of that study
https://news.fiu.edu/2021/fiu-profes...ace-radar-data

I have no opinion on the science but find the specific dot identified as that building eerily accurate.

Here is the full published study:
https://faculty.fiu.edu/~swdowins/pu...i-OCM-2020.pdf
page 4 is where this building is mentioned. I hope there are no other 12-story buildings out there as specific address is not listed anywhere... I hope this professor will enjoy his 5 second fame