subway in miami? (Jacksonville, Tampa, Orlando: 2014, leasing, luxury)

[hurricaneMan1992]

Originally Posted by MiamiRob

^ Well the "Union station" you speak of is actually the MIC or the Miami Intermodal Center which is currently being built right next to the airport east of Lejuene Road. It will be a station for Amtrak, Tri-Rail, Metrorail, Metrobus and eventually High Speed rail. In addition a people mover will go from the MIC into the airport which is currently under construction as well.

Now imagine if NYC's Grand Central Terminal was built at LaGuardia. How useful would that be?? You only want to go there to catch a flight! And you will have to transfer TWICE--once from mainline Metrorail to the airport spur, then again to the train to the terminals, and that's very poor design and it's a half-asked downtown-to-airport connection. All we really needed was something like JFK's "airlink" train from Earlington Heights to the airport parking garage. For Tri-rail, the transfer by shuttle bus works fine. And good luck getting Sunrail into the MIC!

[Coconut1]

I agree that the MIC wasn't such a wise use of funds. I think the main hub should be Downtown, not all the way out by the airport. I think it will be nice, but again, not a wise use of funds.

[clean_polo]

I heard someone else say that they are building a hub downtown as well as the MIC.

[gixxer1000]

Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992

Now imagine if NYC's Grand Central Terminal was built at LaGuardia. How useful would that be?? You only want to go there to catch a flight! And you will have to transfer TWICE--once from mainline Metrorail to the airport spur, then again to the train to the terminals, and that's very poor design and it's a half-asked downtown-to-airport connection. All we really needed was something like JFK's "airlink" train from Earlington Heights to the airport parking garage. For Tri-rail, the transfer by shuttle bus works fine. And good luck getting Sunrail into the MIC!

Originally Posted by Coconut1

I agree that the MIC wasn't such a wise use of funds. I think the main hub should be Downtown, not all the way out by the airport. I think it will be nice, but again, not a wise use of funds.

That's because the MIC at the airport will NOT be the main hub. As I told MiamiRob the main hub will be downtown. I even copy and pasted parts directly from the master plan indicating a central MIC located downtown connecting all the transportation systems.

But there clearly needed to be a way to connect the airport into the the entire transportation system. And since the downtown hub wont be created for years why not use the airport hub until it's completed.

Interestingly enough they changed the name of the Miami Intermodal Center Earlington Heights Connector to "Airportlink".

Miami-Dade County - Transit

The FEC lines will be utilized to connect all the Southeast cities providing direct access to downtown. Therefor all the transportation lines will connect at the downtown hub.

[Coconut1]

Originally Posted by gixxer1000

That's because the MIC at the airport will NOT be the main hub. As I told MiamiRob the main hub will be downtown. I even copy and pasted parts directly from the master plan indicating a central MIC located downtown connecting all the transportation systems.

But there clearly needed to be a way to connect the airport into the the entire transportation system. And since the downtown hub wont be created for years why not use the airport hub until it's completed.

Interestingly enough they changed the name of the Miami Intermodal Center Earlington Heights Connector to "Airportlink".

Miami-Dade County - Transit

The FEC lines will be utilized to connect all the Southeast cities providing direct access to downtown. Therefor all the transportation lines will connect at the downtown hub.

Miami Intermodal Center

Regardless of what the DDA says, the Downtown center is listed as a "long term" goal. To me, long term goals aren't something we should rely on in the present. So much change will occur within the city between now and then that it doesn't even make sense to say "it will come" when it hasn't even been fully developed.

Miami-Dade wants the MIC to be the main hub. They've called it Miami Central Station for a reason.

As for the FEC line, why not get it running in the short term so the city actually has some numbers as to ridership and can then decide if the line is worth building a dedicated Metro system to it. It doesn't make any sense to let it sit empty.

I agree that the airport needs to be connected to the Metro system; however, I don't think putting Miami Central Station out there was the highest and best use of funds.

I think we're on the same team when it comes to expanding public transportation in Miami, it's just we have different ideas on what to do with it.

[gixxer1000]

Originally Posted by Coconut1

Miami Intermodal Center

Regardless of what the DDA says, the Downtown center is listed as a "long term" goal. To me, long term goals aren't something we should rely on in the present. So much change will occur within the city between now and then that it doesn't even make sense to say "it will come" when it hasn't even been fully developed.

So I guess you shouldn't be saving for retirement because you could easily get hit by a bus before then. Were talking about public transportation. I think it's a safe bet that downtown will still be here 15 years from now.

Originally Posted by Coconut1

Miami-Dade wants the MIC to be the main hub. They've called it Miami Central Station for a reason.

Again with the absence of a true downtown central hub for the next 15 years you should definitely use the Airport hub as the central hub until then.

Originally Posted by Coconut1

As for the FEC line, why not get it running in the short term so the city actually has some numbers as to ridership and can then decide if the line is worth building a dedicated Metro system to it. It doesn't make any sense to let it sit empty.

They're in the process of performing studies to determine the best use now. But being that the lines rung through all the Southeast cities they will be used in a way that best suits ALL those cities. In all likelihood it will probably be some sort of combination of systems.

Originally Posted by Coconut1

I agree that the airport needs to be connected to the Metro system; however, I don't think putting Miami Central Station out there was the highest and best use of funds.

Regardless of whether or not you make the airport the central hub you agree that you need to connect the airport to the metro systems. Thats where all the funds are going. So now that it is connect to the system they call it the Central Station, but you haven't spent any more money to actually do anything. It's just a name.

Originally Posted by Coconut1

I think we're on the same team when it comes to expanding public transportation in Miami, it's just we have different ideas on what to do with it.

When you do a study and find out that because of the projected number of riders, projected travel plans of the riders and cost to build and maintain the system it makes more economical sense to build street cars instead of expand metrorail why do you think is going to happen?

They are up in the air about what/how is going to be used along the FEC corridor. But whatever is put there its going to be there mainly to bring people in and out of downtown. You are still going to need a separate system for the majority of people who will be moving within downtown. Which is why it makes sense to start streetcars now. Especially considering the cost and time to build are lower.

I'm not telling you what I personally want to happen, I'm telling you that with the information that is present this is probably the direction we are headed.

If you want to have a separate discussion about our ideals of the perfect Miami utopian public transportation system then we would probably have similar ideals.

[hurricaneMan1992]

I agree with Coconut. In the Government, performing studies usually means plenty is being said, nothing is getting done. And I believe they've been talking about the FEC line for decades?

The MIC, the stadium, the Port tunnel, that's being done.

And I think I can depend more on my ability to not get hit by transit busses more than I can depend on long-term government plans (and I DON'T trust Social Security), so I'll still save for retirement

[Coconut1]

Originally Posted by hurricaneMan1992

I agree with Coconut. In the Government, performing studies usually means plenty is being said, nothing is getting done. And I believe they've been talking about the FEC line for decades?

The MIC, the stadium, the Port tunnel, that's being done.

And I think I can depend more on my ability to not get hit by transit busses more than I can depend on long-term government plans (and I DON'T trust Social Security), so I'll still save for retirement

Exactly. There's tons of naysayers out there and in Miami-Dade there are plenty that feel scorned by the half penny tax and lack of fruition that came from it.

Once people see things up and moving, they're more inclined to say "hey, that works!" as opposed to seeing a piece of poster with pretty pictures of what could be.

I'm all about doing what we can do NOW, without a huge investment.

Would it be nice to have the FEC corridor used for Tri-Rail now? Yes. But as it stands now, Tri-Rail has dismal performance time and is not that heavily traveled. Additionally you have to work with two other counties, who, by looking at them, don't have a lick of sense when it comes to implementing mass transit.

If there is a train track sitting EMPTY that goes through the urban core, why not use it??

To gix:

I think my calling it Metrorail is perhaps what's getting you and I confused. The FEC corridor would utilize the existing at grade tracks, have some shoulders created for passing trains and have some stations constructed along the track.

The tracks go to Downtown, pass through the new Midtown Miami center, the Design District and as I previously noted, are very close to the entire Midtown district.

The people of Miami deserve a better Metro system and this is one way we can work to improve it, no matter if it's temporary or not.

[jefffla01]

Subway system is not feasable for Miami.

The tropical weather here will play havoc with an underground system. As well constructed and sealed as it can be, the tropical storms will cause potential flooding of the systems. Water leaking onto an electrified track equals potential disaster.

As other posters have indicated Miami Dade County is in critical financial condition and has been for quite a few years. Where will the money come from??? A high speed railway system that benefits a entire region has gotten federal stimulus funds, however one cannot expect the fed to bankroll a subway system strictly for Dade county.

The corruption, inefficiency, and mismanagement that has plagued Metrorail had proven that you cannot turn federal money over to Dade County and expect efficiency and integrity.

Subway system for Miami???? Nada

[WINTERFRONT]

Originally Posted by jefffla01

Subway system is not feasable for Miami.

The tropical weather here will play havoc with an underground system. As well constructed and sealed as it can be, the tropical storms will cause potential flooding of the systems. Water leaking onto an electrified track equals potential disaster.

Guangzhou has a humid subtropical climate (Koppen Cfa) influenced by the Asian monsoon. Summers are wet with high temperatures, high humidity and a high heat index. Winters are mild and comparatively dry. Guangzhou has a lengthy monsoon season, spanning from April through September. The annual average temperature in Guangzhou is 22.6 °C°F),[5] the relative humidity is approximately 68% (72.7 , whereas annual rainfall in the metropolitan area is over 1,700 mmin).[5]

With the first line of Guangzhou Metro opened in 1997, Guangzhou is the fourth city in Mainland China to have an underground railway system, behind Beijing, Tianjin and Shanghai. Currently the underground network is made up of five lines, covering a total length of 157 km (98 mi), while another four lines are under construction and due to be completed in 2010 before the Asian Games. A long term plan is to make the city's underground system expand over 500 km (310 mi) by 2020 with 15 lines in operation.

Although I agree with you on the lack of funding issues, I have to add, that the survival of any future plan depends mostly on people's ridership.