subway in miami? (Orlando, Fort Lauderdale, Kendall: neighborhoods, centers, rail)

[Joke Insurance]

While what is listed below is fantasy, could any of you see this work?

Source: South Florida Transportation Part II - Page 38 - SkyscraperCity

Salient points:

* FIU line is absolutely built before red line. Track and stations explicitly built to accommodate future diesel light rail trains for red line, which leverages the FIU line's investment and uses its track from MIC to 72nd Avenue. Ideally, the DLRT trains can also run from Metrorail tracks' power rail when available.

* Red line generally runs at grade. Elevated above Bird Road between 69th Ave and Tropical Park (it would have to be elevated along CSX between Bird Road and 874 anyway due to active railyards throughout area and FRA prohibition against mixing LRT and freight). Absolutely, positively elevated over Kendall Drive. Might need to be elevated for some portion of route between Flagler Street and Coral Way to avoid active railyards... but might not. Stations are enclosed, air conditioned, and have sliding doors that open along platform ONLY when train is in station (to keep people from trying to avoid paying fare by climbing up onto platform from tracks). Non-FRA DLRT trains will almost certainly require new, dedicated track between Waterford and Galloway, but might be able to use existing CSX track south of Galloway (specifically excluding Kendall Drive crossing) if CSX can be persuaded to agree to vacate the tracks south of Galloway between 6am and midnight. Red line has single track with double-tracked stations to allow passing; Trains moving in peak direction have absolute priority over trains moving in other direction. Trains in peak direction every 10 minutes, in off-peak direction every 15 or 20. Off-peak trains every 15 or 20 minutes in both directions.

* Doral Station is near NW 14th Street and 108th Ave, with pedestrian bridge to other side of 107th Ave. Fountainbleu Station is below 97th Ave bridge alongside 836, but its PARKING GARAGE is on the SOUTH side of 836. There's a stairway & elevator from 97th Ave bridge down to station mezzanine. Beacon station is over railroad tracks between 82nd and 84th Avenues, with pedestrian bridge over 836 connecting it to NW 7th Street on south side.

* South of Doral Station, Metrorail is either aerial along 107th Ave, or a subway below 110th Avenue's actual & hypothetical route. The Fairground's parking lot is replaced by a parking garage & now does double-duty as both fair parking AND park & ride lot for Metrorail. FIU/Fair's station itself is near hypothetical intersection of sw 16th street and 109th Avenue.

* The blue line exists because I believe AT LEAST half of the people riding through Earlington Heights Station will be boarding and exiting at stations along the hypothetical blue line. Besides convenience, it will avoid having to rebuild Earlington Heights station to accommodate tens of thousands of people who'd otherwise have to change trains there every day. The supreme irony is that without the blue line, the busiest station with the most daily passengers getting on and off won't be MIC... it'll be Earlington Heights, a station that was NEVER designed to handle that kind of passenger volume.

Although I'd put the south beach line ahead of the red line insofar as absolute usefulness goes, I'll concede that it would be easier to build red first because it would be several orders of magnitude cheaper. HOWEVER, I'd dig in and insist that the yellow line to South Beach come before extensions to the red line beyond Metrozoo or Eureka Drive. Way out/down there, literally everyone is going to be driving to the station anyway. Another 2-5 miles through relatively light traffic (compared to what awaits ~10 miles to the northeast) won't kill them. I also nuked the Kendall Drive line entirely from the map, because I really, really just don't see the pent up demand for off-peak travel to Dadeland Mall via Metrorail from west Kendall Drive. It's kind of ironic that someone living by Kendall Drive at 97th Avenue, or Bird Road by Ludlam Road, would probably choose to go to International Mall instead of Dadeland because it meant he could take the train instead of a bus, but hey, that's life

Some more rationales:

* There's still no direct line from South Beach to Dadeland. I'd make sure the junction was in place to accommodate one if future ridership patterns showed lots of people boarding in South Beach and exiting at a station south of Santa Clara, but initially my feeling is that the majority of passengers to and from South Beach will be heading for MIC or beyond.

* I'd switch from flat fares to DC-style farecards (for casual riders) and London-style smartcards for everyone else. Aside from being able to soak tourists by charging twice as much for non-smartcard travel to/from MIC and charging people who live in the hinterlands more than people who live downtown and only travel 3-4 stations at a time, it also provides a wonderfully accurate way to study boarding and travel patterns, and KNOW exactly how many people got on in South Beach and off at University, or on at Hialeah and off at MDCC/South.

* I can live with (mostly) grade crossings for red south of Waterford because the crossings themselves don't tend to closely parallel major roads, but I'd be VERY uncomfortable recommending a similar line along FEC northeast to Aventura from Midtown unless Miami Gardens Drive and 163 Street (and possibly others) were also given flyovers like the one at Ives Dairy Road and US-1. Traffic to/from those two roads and US-1 is already a clusterf**k nightmare thanks to the railroad tracks, US-1, and West Dixie Highway being so close together, despite the fact that there are currently few actual trains. God help North Miami residents if there were actually trains running every 5 minutes along those tracks...

* If Earlington Heights station gets hopelessly inundated by people trying to transfer from red, yellow, or blue to orange on gamedays, one possible solution might be to continue (on gamedays only) red from MIC to Dolphin Stadium/Calder, bypassing Earlington Heights station entirely. Yet another good reason why it's so critical that any DLRT trains (if bought) be forced to be capable of running on existing Metrorail track. Why red, and not blue or yellow? Aesthetic convenience on one hand, and distance travel on the other. My thoughts are that the people who live the farthest from Dolphin Stadium are the most likely to take Metrorail there on gamedays. Insofar as red, orange, and blue go, red goes the farthest. If, for some reason, red trains can run along NEW metrorail track west of MIC, but can't run on legacy Metrorail track east of MIC, a gameday-only line called "turquoise" could run from FIU to Dolphin Stadium (once again, bypassing Earlington Heights and heading straight for Brownsville from MIC)

* Note the correlation between UM, FIU, and Dolphins team colors and the lines that serve them

[Howest2008]

Originally Posted by money23

other city under water has one like new york most one is in nycempire state skyscapers is under three rivers i wacth on under ground history channel and that just a example of nyc midtown way pass miami in under feet miami go least obtains its drinking water from this aquifer. As a result of the aquifer, it is not possible to dig more than 15 to 20ft (4.57 to 6.1 m) beneath the city without hitting water, which impedes underground construction. For this reason there is no subway system in Miami. I THINK miami CAN GET ONE NYC Manhattan got one even throught got it i feel miami can get one i known season change diffrent la got earth quakes

Good Luch With That

[cixcell]

a submarine subway?

[NYC809]

is it me or did anyway else struggle reading through the opening post?

[hurricaneMan1992]

Originally Posted by Joke Insurance

While what is listed below is fantasy, could any of you see this work?

Source: South Florida Transportation Part II - Page 38 - SkyscraperCity

Still no line through most of the dense, urban areas along the Biscayne and Collins corridors, not even in our wildest fantasy? Back to the drawing board...

[Coconut1]

Originally Posted by Joke Insurance

While what is listed below is fantasy, could any of you see this work?

Source: South Florida Transportation Part II - Page 38 - SkyscraperCity

It's a nice layout, but needs additions up the FEC and more in Miami Beach.

On a side note, I don't know why people there (Skyscraper City and Transit Miami Blog) are putting down the FEC/Biscayne DMV project. This is a great thing to get going while we continue to wait for the full FEC line to begin operations.

The FEC line from Midtown to the Port is not used at all. To have something create more transit is a great thing, especially when the cost is not much more than the trolley cars they already plan on using.

The one thing I don't like about the project is the fact that the DMV would go up Biscayne. One of the most important things with transit is ensuring it is delay free. Going on the road with hundreds of other cars at any given time is a problem.

What I believe would be better is to run the DMV down the FEC, have a connection point with Metromover at Freedom Tower Station (the FEC goes right under this station and this would tie the current systems into this new one) and then run the DMV up NE 2nd by taking one lane of traffic (currently a one way in Downtown which runs south) and reserve it especially for the DMV.

NE 2nd becomes a two way road at the MacArthur; however, since it's only one lane heading north, simply reserve it for the DMV and continue having NE 2nd a one way heading south. This would continue until NE 17th Street where NE 2nd would then become two southbound lanes, one northbound lane and one northbound DMV lane. (Currently at NE 17th, NE 2nd becomes a four lane road, two lanes in each direction)

I think the DMV idea is a good one, and with a tweak like this it could go from being good to being great. Connecting Downtown and Midtown is a step in the right direction. If we continue to wait for others we'll continue going nowhere fast. Once the FEC line is up and running throughout the counties we could discontinue use of the DMV here, but again, something now is better than nothing.

[doggiebus]

^^^Going ground up Biscayne won't get approved. They tried doing this down Kendall Drive a few years ago, when residents heard that left hand turns wouldn't be allowed and that light rail might running downt he center of Kendall Drive, it got shot down. So they won't be running light rail down Biscayne unless they figure a way to run it in the air.

The 874 branch is being fought by all the associations from Country Walk to Bird Rd. CSX owns the rails the county wants to use, so the county will have to work something out with CSX. The rails down that corridor I hear would need to be replaced (and you know CSX isn't paying for that), more money the county doesn't have.

[catt6]

god, subways are HORRIBLE. they may be nice when first built - but with years of usage, they become, nasty, dirty, filthy, urine-soaked, dark and depressing down there in the tunnels .... i left philly and nyc cause i LOATHED the nastiness of having to ride them every day. Subways are one more thing about 'big cities' that further remove human beings from fresh air and sunlight. bleah.

imho, light rail is preferable.

[cixcell]

Originally Posted by catt6

god, subways are HORRIBLE. they may be nice when first built - but with years of usage, they become, nasty, dirty, filthy, urine-soaked, dark and depressing down there in the tunnels .... i left philly and nyc cause i LOATHED the nastiness of having to ride them every day. Subways are one more thing about 'big cities' that further remove human beings from fresh air and sunlight. bleah.

imho, light rail is preferable.

they just need to make them like that 1980s style mcdonalds furniture or playground equipment with a drain in the floor so they can walk in and pressure wash everything and walk out

[boxus]

Originally Posted by catt6

god, subways are HORRIBLE. they may be nice when first built - but with years of usage, they become, nasty, dirty, filthy, urine-soaked, dark and depressing down there in the tunnels .... i left philly and nyc cause i LOATHED the nastiness of having to ride them every day. Subways are one more thing about 'big cities' that further remove human beings from fresh air and sunlight. bleah.

imho, light rail is preferable.

You can thank our wonderful citizens for taking care of the items tax payers give them to make their lives better.

Subways can be clean and are in many places, Stockholm for example has a great system and so clean a person can eat off the floor.

It is not the subways that are horrible, it is the people who use them that make them that way.