miami accent ? (University, Westchester, Christmas: home, neighborhood, university)

[CLTKing]

Originally Posted by MattyGit

I disagree with this aspect. As a former voice and speech professor, schooled on both the East and West coasts and relocated to So Fla in the late 90's, with collegiate students from all over the US with a large percentage from the Miami area - most of my Miami student's first language was not English. Perhaps English was primarily spoken at school (roughly 8 hours per day), but caregivers (either parents or extended family) most often spoke Spanish. I also observed that Spanish was the default language when in their peer groups at the collegiate level.

If one subscribes to the notion put forth by linguist Eric Englebert, who believed that the crucial period of language acquisition and learned speech patterns ends around the age of 12 years, one can surmise that surely a Miami regionalism, in fact, does exists.

I had several students that wanted to be an actors, yet not be pigeonholed as a "Latin actors." Though born in the US, their regionalisms ensured that they would never get past the "Latin" moniker. When asked what language they spoke at home? Spanish was invariably the answer. What type of music do they listen to? Latin. What do they watch on TV? All Spanish networks and programming. What language does their circle of friends speak? Guess. So in effect, these college students wanted to rid themselves of accents (or at least control it), yet they really only were exposed to English for a few hours a day.

Their progress was minimal at best. Their ear for sound additions, substitutions and omissions was very slow to develop. Contrast that with the student from West Texas that had that thick twang, whose only contact with his speech frame of reference was a weekly call to mom and dad. These students who virtually severed their ties with their familiar speech patterns progressed at a much more rapid rate. The trick was not letting them fall into the Miami speech patterns.

I also noticed that the Miami-esque regionalism was far more previlent in females than males. I would subscribe this to a generally more animated style of talk - but their was a certain pride in sounding like a "chonga."

Of course in speech patterns there are always certain socio-economic theories along with various entertainment stimula. We are talking about a generation that is also greatly influenced by Hip Hip phrasing and Perez Hilton journalism. Mix that with their learned speech patterns, well, how can we expect that not to influence their sound?

Very nicely explained, however, I think the Miami accent that I was referring to, has nothing to do with the Chonga/Hialeah type. If we listen to Gloria Estefan, John Secada and the Lincoln-Diaz Balart brothers speak, we can clearly pick up the Cuban-Miami accent. I don't think it resembles a chonga talking. You are correct that the accent has alot to do with the language they speak at home, and the language they speak in either school or at work. The Spanish influence is strong and sometimes it is hard to get rid of it. Great post!

[CLTKing]

Originally Posted by Loggerhead Shrike

I agree that the "generic ghetto hispanic" accent is on the increase in Miami, especially with younger people. But the Miami Accent i am talking about is not the same. Listen to a cuban american in his 30's or 40's that was born here and it is different from the "new ghetto accent".

I agree. Those Cuban-Americans in their 30's and 40's have a distinct accent that has nothing to do with ghetto or chonga. I have it, and I consider myself an educated person......

[MattyGit]

Originally Posted by CLTKing

Very nicely explained, however, I think the Miami accent that I was referring to, has nothing to do with the Chonga/Hialeah type. If we listen to Gloria Estefan, John Secada and the Lincoln-Diaz Balart brothers speak, we can clearly pick up the Cuban-Miami accent. I don't think it resembles a chonga talking. You are correct that the accent has alot to do with the language they speak at home, and the language they speak in either school or at work. The Spanish influence is strong and sometimes it is hard to get rid of it. Great post!

Well CLT you bring in another VERY important factor - AGE. Just as location has a huge effect on diction, various age groups also foster and maintain their own sense of style and sound. One generation always sounds different than another.

I spoke primarily of the 18-21 age group in my first post, however each generation takes on a sound all its own.

There are also always mitigating circumstances and one should never look to one, two or even three examples examples as being definitive. The three people you mention are poor examples for various reasons - but mainly, they live in the public eye. This changes their sound. They have all been coached to be "presentative" rather than "representative." They are all mindful of how they "sound" to the public. These factors, no matter what, alters the way they sound. They also gear their sound to attract an audience that they want to be as large as possible, yet still maintain their "identity."

There are also various other circumstances. These can be as minor as city of birth (not just country) and city of settlemnt (not just county, etc.). This will go into determining overall sound.

When I lived in the NY/NJ area, I used to ask my students a series of questions (about 30) and depending on the answers and how they sounded while delivering the answers, I could tell them want county (and, on a good day, what city) the student was from.

So in short, to respond to your post - yes and no, depending -

And for all you NY/NJ people - what do you call the night before Halloween?

[FloGrownGrl]

Originally Posted by big mean bear

Instead of "Dollar" you say "doll-er". Instead of "color" you say "coler". "Ar's and or's are pronounced -er.

Are those type of accents because of the hispanic and island language influences? When I first read this I said it in my head with a typical southern "draw", but the second time I said it was with a non-native hispanic english-speaking accent..if that makes sense at all.

[vpcats]

Originally Posted by MattyGit

Well CLT you bring in another VERY important factor - AGE. Just as location has a huge effect on diction, various age groups also foster and maintain their own sense of style and sound. One generation always sounds different than another.

I spoke primarily of the 18-21 age group in my first post, however each generation takes on a sound all its own.

There are also always mitigating circumstances and one should never look to one, two or even three examples examples as being definitive. The three people you mention are poor examples for various reasons - but mainly, they live in the public eye. This changes their sound. They have all been coached to be "presentative" rather than "representative." They are all mindful of how they "sound" to the public. These factors, no matter what, alters the way they sound. They also gear their sound to attract an audience that they want to be as large as possible, yet still maintain their "identity."

There are also various other circumstances. These can be as minor as city of birth (not just country) and city of settlemnt (not just county, etc.). This will go into determining overall sound.

When I lived in the NY/NJ area, I used to ask my students a series of questions (about 30) and depending on the answers and how they sounded while delivering the answers, I could tell them want county (and, on a good day, what city) the student was from.

So in short, to respond to your post - yes and no, depending -

And for all you NY/NJ people - what do you call the night before Halloween?

What do I win if I say All Hallows Eve?

[nicsma2002]

Originally Posted by vpcats

What do I win if I say All Hallows Eve?

All Hallow's Eve is Halloween, October 31. The night of October 30 is known as "Devil's Night" in some areas up north. Maybe that is what s/he is referring to.

[MattyGit]

Originally Posted by nicsma2002

All Hallow's Eve is Halloween, October 31. The night of October 30 is known as "Devil's Night" in some areas up north. Maybe that is what s/he is referring to.

Devil's Night is one...
But depending on where in the area you are from you could know it as:
Mischief Night
Cabbage Night
Goosey Night
Egg Night
or Tick Tac Night

[Marlin331]

In Miami, it's "the night before Halloween" but I HAVE heard "mischief night" a few times.

I must say that although MattyGit has made some good observations, I strongly disagree with one of them: the choice of language of Hispanic-American kids in Miami. It has been my experience that Hispanic-American kids, even if they speak only Spanish at home, prefer to speak English with their friends. They listen to music in both languages, watch TV in mostly English, but communicate with their friends in pretty much only English. Spanish is largely for family and for showing respect when communicating with older people you don't know.

I know the Miami accent very well and once in a while a little bit of it will slip my tongue. However, I don't think of it as ghetto at all; it's just some Spanish-influenced intonation and pronunciation making its way into English vernacular. I find that when you control for the Spanish influence in the accent of a person who grows up in Miami, the accent is fairly neutral and could fit in well in somewhere like California. It's not Southern, it's not Midwestern, and it's not really Northeastern either.

[MattyGit]

Originally Posted by crisp444

In Miami, it's "the night before Halloween" but I HAVE heard "mischief night" a few times.

I must say that although MattyGit has made some good observations, I strongly disagree with one of them: the choice of language of Hispanic-American kids in Miami. It has been my experience that Hispanic-American kids, even if they speak only Spanish at home, prefer to speak English with their friends. They listen to music in both languages, watch TV in mostly English, but communicate with their friends in pretty much only English. Spanish is largely for family and for showing respect when communicating with older people you don't know.

I know the Miami accent very well and once in a while a little bit of it will slip my tongue. However, I don't think of it as ghetto at all; it's just some Spanish-influenced intonation and pronunciation making its way into English vernacular. I find that when you control for the Spanish influence in the accent of a person who grows up in Miami, the accent is fairly neutral and could fit in well in somewhere like California. It's not Southern, it's not Midwestern, and it's not really Northeastern either.

Well, we will have to agree to disagree on some points.
I had students that were second and third generation that had accents as thick as any newly arrived immigrant. Of course there were also those that did all they could to distance themselves from the sound of their families.

Now we also have to be careful about labels like "ghetto." We spin a negative slant on it, the same way the Victorians viewed Cockney. These terms have both geographical and linguistic associations. When dealing with linguistics we try to separate these terms from their socio-economic parallel. Try, but not always succeed... lol...

Spoken language changes far faster than its written counterpart - and media influence plays a huge part.

[vpcats]

Originally Posted by MattyGit

Devil's Night is one...
But depending on where in the area you are from you could know it as:
Mischief Night
Cabbage Night
Goosey Night
Egg Night
or Tick Tac Night

So are you saying I didn't win anything?

I would think I should have, even if just for trying!