Less than 2% of Sweetwater is non-Hispanic, Westchester has thriving 8% white-Euro population. (Miami: house, landscaping)

[cuba libre]

Originally Posted by Cougar Beach

Some bright spots in Miami are Tobacco Road, Churchills, the New World Symphony in South Beach, as well as the Van Dyke Cafe, also on Lincoln Road. You may even luck out and see a good band at Finnegan's 2.

Funny, it seemed like I used to have no social life in Miami, but those were the only three places I ever went to for live entertainment! (Tobacco Road/Churchills/Van Dyke Cafe) Dinner at the Van Dyke on the street is a real experience, and drinks on the second floor in the Jazz lounge of the Van Dyke is priceless. Tobacco Road and Churchills are landmarks as well, if you're into loud music and beer.

BACK TO THE OP >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[EnjoyTheSilence]

Westchester is the pits -- seriously. Granted, you're not likely to get murdered or robbed there (maybe I'm wrong), but it's not a nice place to find yourself in. Many of the famous Miami "hit and runs" occur on stretches of road in Westchester. People there are extremely rude, hostile, loud and obnoxious. There's nothing to do, unless your idea of fun is cruising down Bird Road (SW 40th Street) in your souped-up Ford F150, listening to reggaeton and driving like a complete and utter pr--k.

[Shoegal1075]

To those of you who think Miami/SFL is such a horrible place to live, can you remind me again why you still live there? For as long as I can remember SFL has always had a high population of latin people and yet people are talking on here as if they all came on a boat yesterday. We have been your neighbors for years. If we don't speak english in your presence knowing you don't speak spanish, it is probably because we don't think you are worth speaking to.

[Cougar Beach]

Chelsa1075> For as long as I can remember SFL has always had a high population of latin people and yet people are talking on here as if they all came on a boat yesterday.

The Latin population started picking up in the early 60's with the freedom flights and boatlifts from Cuba. Even in the late 70's, Latins were a minority in most areas of Miami-Dade.

Beginning in the early 80's, probably starting with the Mariel boatlift, there was an explosion of Cuban immigration to South Florida. All along, there were immigrants from other parts of Latin America, especially when there was political or economic turmoil.

The rate of Latin immigration has been so great for almost the past 30 years, with most immigrants coming to the Miami metropolitan area, that assimilation has not been efficient. Because of that, the Miami area has increasingly taken on the feel of a Latin American city.

> If we don't speak english in your presence knowing you don't speak spanish, it is probably because we don't think you are worth speaking to.

If you speak Spanish in front of non-Spanish speakers whom you don't know, how do you know if they're worth speaking to? (I don't mean you personally.)

[EnjoyTheSilence]

Originally Posted by Chelsa1075

To those of you who think Miami/SFL is such a horrible place to live, can you remind me again why you still live there? For as long as I can remember SFL has always had a high population of latin people and yet people are talking on here as if they all came on a boat yesterday. We have been your neighbors for years. If we don't speak english in your presence knowing you don't speak spanish, it is probably because we don't think you are worth speaking to.

This isn't a horrible place per se, but the people here often make it seem that way.

It baffles me when you say "If we don't speak english in your presence knowing you don't speak spanish, it is probably because we don't think you are worth speaking to".

That kind of attitude really doesn't help the situation and in all honesty, only makes me feel even less welcome here. Do you not think that it's highly rude to communicate in Spanish when surrounded by several people who aren't Hispanic? That happens to me a lot at work; many of my Hispanic co-workers converse in Spanish, knowing full-well that at least 50% of those who work at our company don't know a lick of Spanish (and why should they?)

If Hispanic people are our "neighbors", as you put it, then act like neighbors and do your part too. You cannot keep expecting non-Spanish speakers to continually pander to your whims and needs, just because you refuse to learn English and you refuse to assimilate and acknowledge that Miami isn't just for Hispanics only.

I don't like the "if you don't like it, get out" attitude either....why should people be forced to leave, just because they don't fit into a certain category? It's pretty immature to demand that those who are unhappy here (for whatever reason) just up sticks and leave. Many can't, many have obligations here (including myself).

[Marlin331]

Originally Posted by Chelsa1075

If we don't speak english in your presence knowing you don't speak spanish, it is probably because we don't think you are worth speaking to.

You won't be well received in the Miami forum if you make comments such as the one I quoted above.

I am fluent in both languages and although I think it is fine to speak Spanish in many situations, I do not think that it is appropriate when you are sitting in the cafeteria at work and some of the people at your table do not speak Spanish. However, in all honesty, my non-Spanish speaking friends in Miami do not seem to have this problem often. In the experience of myself and most people I know, most Spanish-speaking people in Miami are happy to speak English with you.

Observation about one of the places mentioned in this thread: I was visiting a friend in the Westchester/Coral Terrace area earlier this month and went to Winn-Dixie to buy some ingredients to make dinner. I heard a lot of English and a lot of Spanish, but probably more English. What a shocker! Given that the area around that Winn-Dixie is 80%+ "Hispanic", I bet most of the people I heard speaking English were "Hispanic" as well. I even witnessed old Cuban ladies speaking heavily-accented English with their grandchildren while shopping. I had to stop and ask myself, "Am I really in South Florida?" And if my account isn't unebelievable as it is, a middle-aged man with a Spanish name on his tag approached me at the meat counter and took my order in.... get ready for it... ENGLISH! Yes, this is Coral Terrace we're discussing here.

Westchester is pretty typical of a lower-middle to middle class suburban area of Miami-Dade; pretty white, mostly Hispanic but with a good amount of non-Hispanic people... lots of old Cubans speaking Spanish but with 100% of the younger generation that grew up in Miami speaking English. It's unfair to represent that area as foreign, non-English speaking area when there are so many second-generation Americans there. Many of them who are "Hispanic" don't even speak Spanish.

[Shoegal1075]

Originally Posted by BCreass

This isn't a horrible place per se, but the people here often make it seem that way.

It baffles me when you say "If we don't speak english in your presence knowing you don't speak spanish, it is probably because we don't think you are worth speaking to".

That kind of attitude really doesn't help the situation and in all honesty, only makes me feel even less welcome here. Do you not think that it's highly rude to communicate in Spanish when surrounded by several people who aren't Hispanic? That happens to me a lot at work; many of my Hispanic co-workers converse in Spanish, knowing full-well that at least 50% of those who work at our company don't know a lick of Spanish (and why should they?)

If Hispanic people are our "neighbors", as you put it, then act like neighbors and do your part too. You cannot keep expecting non-Spanish speakers to continually pander to your whims and needs, just because you refuse to learn English and you refuse to assimilate and acknowledge that Miami isn't just for Hispanics only.

I don't like the "if you don't like it, get out" attitude either....why should people be forced to leave, just because they don't fit into a certain category? It's pretty immature to demand that those who are unhappy here (for whatever reason) just up sticks and leave. Many can't, many have obligations here (including myself).

First, let me commend you for using converse instead of conversate - I hear that so often and it hurts my ears.

BeCreas - that really wasn't meant toward you or anyone with any sense. I was just kind of a little P'd off at CubaLibre. Now, to what you were saying about being rude. I completely agree with you that in a work environment that the language spoken should be common to everyone. I speak both languages and think that it is awful that when you enter a Bodega they can't understand english. I'm not talking about people who have been her for 6 months, but people who have been here 20 years. I do think that since English is the spoken Language of the United States that everyone should speak it, however, it has to be up to politicians to put this in place. You want to be a citizen than you have to be able to speak english. Obviously, spanish is the problem for you guys in SFL. This is an issue with many different languages in NYC. I can't go to a store in Flushing and have a conversation with anyone because I don't speak mandarin. So, believe me I understand your frustration. As far as the leaving thing...my point is if you hate living around people who speak another language or have another culture, there is always the option to go to another place that is more suitable for you.

[Shoegal1075]

As I put it to BeCreas - that message was geared more toward Cuba Libre, I did not mean anything personal to anyone. I have a sense of common decency, so I don't speak spanish to people in front who don't understand. If the occassion arises where I have to speak it (ie speaking to an elder who does not speak english), I would then tell my friend what I was saying. I think it is extremely impolite to speak a language don't understand in your presence, so I don't do it. That being said, if the conversation has nothing to do with you, it really shouldn't bother you. If I'm on line at the grocery store, I could care less what language the person in front of me is speaking, but if I'm with a friend on the train and she sees her friend and all the sudden they start speaking hebrew then I would be like WTF, unless of course the other person doesn't speak any english. I think every persons situation is different.

[Shoegal1075]

Thanks crisp - I just read this - I agree with everything you said - I told BeCreass - that the message was geard toward Cuba Libre (he got under my skin). You know living in NY now that there are many language barriers we have to deal with not just spanish. Believe me I get really annoyed when I can't communicate with a person in a store. I'm lucky in the fact that I can understand spanish, but anything, I'm just as lost as the people who have a problem with this. Thanks for the advice though.

[cuba libre]

Originally Posted by Chelsa1075

To those of you who think Miami/SFL is such a horrible place to live, can you remind me again why you still live there? For as long as I can remember SFL has always had a high population of latin people and yet people are talking on here as if they all came on a boat yesterday. We have been your neighbors for years. If we don't speak english in your presence knowing you don't speak spanish, it is probably because we don't think you are worth speaking to.

Well if what you say is true, Hispanics must be lookin' down on white folk on a widespread basis simply because they dislike them, as you said. Most of this ignorance comes from these 3rd world immigrants rarely if ever seeing the world north of Miami. They are probably mad at whites because they were not handed a new SUV with chrome rims upon arrival in the United States. You proved my point entirely. I challenge you to stand behind your claim. The window for you to edit or delete your statement has obviously expired, now you have to take responsibility for mistakenly proving me right.

South Florida's newest and most popular neighborhoods are walled and gated to make their residents belive that they are protected - from people -- like the ones who live in Sweetwater!