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Me and my dad loved looking at the Old Miami photos! I hope that at least half of those plans come to fruition. If they did, the city would be a much nicer place!!!
The one redevelopment project that I have no faith in is the Overtown project. What will you do with the 10,000 or so unemployable drug addicts/criminals who currently live there?
Last edited by doggiebus; 07-17-2009 at 07:30 PM..
It all looks great. aside from a few projects, I noticed the majority of the plan involves basic concepts such as repaving streets, sidewalks, planting trees and creating parks.
Not a bad Idea and should do great things to make Downtown feel more welcoming.
On the other hand I feel the project ignores the current economic and social problems the county and the nation are currently experiencing. We are still in a economic crisis and with that in mind how can you expect private developers to spend millions of dollars in building offices, stores and residencial buildings in Overtown, Park West and FLagler.
Very unlikely to happen, at least not for another 3 or 4 years.
The point is.....they're spending very little in the city. They don't need the city for anything else except the big ball games, museums, and to earn their living.
As opposed to suburbs where they go to sleep and they by groceries but spend the bulk of their extra earnings in the city. Do you see the flaw in what you are saying?
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If I live in the suburb, and wanna shop...I don't need the city for much. For cheap goods, there's the suburban outlets. For high-style, there's Neiman Marcus online. But I will most likely depend (in some way) on the neighbouring big city....in order to make my living. Even if I'm tele-commuting.
compare the money generated in your suburb to the city, you will see which one is more economically viable and at the end of the day that is what matters. Hence the importance of a viable city core. Now I don't know about where you are but here in S. Florida we are seeing significant population loss. Once gas goes back up and inflation kicks in, that presents a entirely different situation. Again the need for more urban environments, which is what makes the downtown plan important. Again the topic is Miami's downtown which is what I am talking about here.
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Many suburbs even have college-university branches of the city's main campus. (Which I don't think is necessarily bad at all, as I truly think that the city and its suburbs should function as a WHOLE).
The suburbanites can afford to escape all the city's problems (as the suburbs are usually built for the class that can afford that lifestyle)
The current economic bust proves this to be a fallacy.
, and yet their employers will demand that the city itself (its core...downtown) look out for its interest....or it won't survive. The city core's dwellers don't have that kind of power over the suburbs (via the entities that employ them).
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The suburbs function alone in almost every way....except in their residents' earning capacity.
Then they don't function then. In order to "function" one must either be self sufficient (producing income through local jobs and strong tax base, or they are leaching off another area in which case they are not self sufficient.
...and their ability to draw people and investors (without a big city in the background).
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They also don't have the educational & research facilities of the bigger cities, but then, they neither have the dense pockets of crime and poverty usually found in the city core (in North America...at least).
According to what I have been told by several cops now, this is no longer the case. People are losing jobs in record numbers (here in S. Florida) and with no end in sight people are doing all sorts of reckless stuff.
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Mind you....because of the high inner city rents ....(in many successful cities) a lot of production and office work is moving to the suburbs.
Again, speaking from South Florida we are seeing a lot of commercial real estate showing signs of distress. This is in and of itself isn't true either. I know you are in canada, but when you get here (again the topic is Downtown Miami) you will see what I am mean.
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Anyhow...I was only talking about what I'm witnessing where I'm at right now, and reporting what's going on in a place which has gone beyond (and never really had) the city vs suburb antagonism and deep class & race problems.
I understand what you are saying, but the topic is downtown Miami, and the situation here does not reflect your sentiment. I dont know Canada's situation but America's situation is one in which a lot of things are going to be reversed. We have been on a binge of horrible economic policies since the great depression and all of that is becoming unravalled. Well al suburbs go bye bye? No, but their look and feel will be different, far flung places will not make it back from this and you are going to see a reversal of demographics moving out west and those with menas moving closer in. You are already seeing that here.
It all looks great. aside from a few projects, I noticed the majority of the plan involves basic concepts such as repaving streets, sidewalks, planting trees and creating parks.
Not a bad Idea and should do great things to make Downtown feel more welcoming.
On the other hand I feel the project ignores the current economic and social problems the county and the nation are currently experiencing. We are still in a economic crisis and with that in mind how can you expect private developers to spend millions of dollars in building offices, stores and residencial buildings in Overtown, Park West and FLagler.
Very unlikely to happen, at least not for another 3 or 4 years.
Its called the stimulus plan strikes back. Biden and Obama are already making the rounds for a second stimulus, this one will be far larger and greater than the last one. Far more practical and have less pork. They just had a mayoral meeting in, i want to say Alabama. There the mayors draft up plans of waht they want to do, why, the impact i.e. jobs created etc. etc. They float that to washington and then Obama or whoever then can make the rounds to gain support based on what these guys say. Thats how the first one worked and thats how this one will work. Remember during the great depression they did the same tactic to build out part of NYC subways, the highway system across America, dams and on and on. The downside to all this is, they will print the money and you and I are going to pay for it with higher gas prices and stiffling inflation.
Someone said the overtown initiative wont work. To them I say, you need to travel more. It has happened in every other major city across America. They have a host of tools and tactics to push people and crime out of a given area. Also, as things get worse for those at the bottom rung (they are always the first to go) there will be a bit of natural selection to the process.
HAHAHA What a joke!!! With what money are they planning to build all these structures? and who in their right mind would walk these "famous" boulevards when it is 115 degress outside and the homeless and criminals are hiding in every corner!?
Jeez you are too pessimistic! It's not that hard. When they first built the Empire State building they called it the "empty state Building" and derided it as being out in the middle of nowhere.
Guys who have the guts to build should do it. It will pay off eventually.
And as far as the street zombies, hell all you need to do is Giulianize downtown and that problem will just disappear. In 1988 New york was like a war zone. Now it's the safest city in the USA. If they started today, it could be all done in five years.
And where will the money from? Easy. All the young pretty people with money will move in. NYC added 205000 people since 2000. They will fill those condos and stroll Biscayne Blvd for capaccinos. Just round up the bums. It can be done.
I think we agree on most points.
You just happen to have a grudge against suburbanites!
Most healthy cities have healthy suburbs too.
It's not one OR the other. Obviously the price of gas and the growing population are going to speed up the revival of cities but that re-birth has been in the works for a while. Again I repeat (like a preacher ), the revival of the cities won't necessarily translate into the demise of the suburbs.
DO YOU AGREE with me on that point....for that is the key point I'm trying to make.
Thus...there is no need for Cuba Libre to be self-defensive about his lifestyle of choice (suburban). Suburban trains (of some sort) will be taking his lot...right into....into the cities & the renewed downtowns of North America. Once the price of downtown real estate skyrockets, suburbs remain a sound option for those who prefer suburban space & amenities over downtown's prices.
Go to Paris...and you'll find the notorious poor immigrant suburbs....but then you'll also find the very chi-chi suburbs...(like the one Sarkozy's from). If I recall right....Lilliane Bettancourt (L'Oreal) lives in the same suburb, Neuilly-sur-Seine. Obviously, these are people who could afford to live right on the Champs Elysee yet they choose the 'burbs.
I'm talking about all these other cities because I wish to point to examples of what happens....and what could happpen anywhere (given similar conditions).
The reason I mentioned the suburbanites I'm close to in my earlier post...is because I wanted to show their dependence on the city (for jobs), and almost nothing else. I know for a fact that they shop in the suburbs too (as I probably would...for most of the better stores have their suburban branches). Once they leave the city at 5 PM on Friday...they hardly ever go back. Their lifestyles are 95% suburban.
As far as the suburbs that are already built up...we're not going to tear them down. They're not disappearing. They'll still be very attractive places to live but their values will be dependant on the price of fuel and proximity to places of employment. Suburbs that have their own business parks and sound educational facilities will fare the best.
Thus...there is no need for Cuba Libre to be self-defensive about his lifestyle of choice (suburban). Suburban trains (of some sort) will be taking his lot...right into....into the cities & the renewed downtowns of North America. Once the price of downtown real estate skyrockets, suburbs remain a sound option for those who prefer suburban space & amenities over downtown's prices.
Go to Paris...and you'll find the notorious poor immigrant suburbs....but then you'll also find the very chi-chi suburbs...(like the one Sarkozy's from). If I recall right....Lilliane Bettancourt (L'Oreal) lives in the same suburb, Neuilly-sur-Seine. Obviously, these are people who could afford to live right on the Champs Elysee yet they choose the 'burbs.
Wild Style is what we call in this country a "radical". He thinks the government should artificially inflate the cost of living (and commuting) in the suburbs in order to force people into moving back to the urban jungle.
Let the free market determine where people live, not moneyed scientists, government agencies, or ideology-based politicians.
Its called the stimulus plan strikes back. Biden and Obama are already making the rounds for a second stimulus, this one will be far larger and greater than the last one. Far more practical and have less pork.
You sound totally sold on all of this spending... My impression of you is starting to fit like a hand in a glove. You claim to be a student of economics, what kind of economics to you believe in? Certainly not the kind that allowed us to become the superpower that we are! You must believe like most other uber-liberals that this country's "era of greatness" is over. That we must submit our souls to the government because we are too incapable of regulating ourselves...
Now it's time for enviro-regulation that will squash the last of our industry, health care that will cause employers to lay off millions, and a currency that is going to be neighbors with the Russian Ruble or maybe even the Japanese Yen.
However, in spite of this commentary, I think this thread is one of the best threads I have ever seen on city-data.com, I shared it with my dad and we talked about it for hours. I enjoy hearing his stories of "Old Miami" from back when it was a military town to the 1970's, when he used to frequent that Studio 54 type club in Conconut Grove that was so popular in the early 80's whenever he flew into town...
I hope that at least some of these comceptual plans see fruition.
Last edited by cuba libre; 07-18-2009 at 10:43 PM..
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), the revival of the cities won't necessarily translate into the demise of the suburbs.
