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I will do the same, but none of mine have been signed.
Stop complaining, I'm not even worth the reputation points, I don't get any
So let's get this straight, when you hear press 1 for English, if you press the #1 key right away, you won't get to hear the Spanish part. Just ignore the whole thing, because what's coming up is a million requests to press this, and press that, and they won't connect you to a live person until you have suffered enough in that automated system.
And forget voice recognition prompts. They were created for people with thick accents. Try it next time they don't understand you. It works.
ray ... have you seen how long this thread is ... again we all agree at least I think we all do that English is and should be our primary language ... but how long is this issue going to be beaten to death ?
I have lived in Miami for a long time and long ago accepted the fact that I, as a non-Hispanic white person, am the minority in my hometown. I know that it is a waste of time to complain about what cannot be changed.
However, to read that I, as an non-Spanish speaking American, am being rude when I don't attempt to speak Spanish, kind of rubbed me the wrong way and so I posted my comment. It had nothing to do with whether or not English is an official language and everything to do with the attitude of those who have been so graciously welcomed to my country and, closer to home, my city.
However, to read that I, as an non-Spanish speaking American, am being rude when I don't attempt to speak Spanish.
Yes that's beyond absurd. I don't expect any non-spanish speaker to learn a single word of Spanish. It would be nice if they asked politely for someone in English. I have seen so many people in tears b/c of that. Many times the person is still in the learning phase and trying their best. Some people can be so harsh without knowing what they are doing. The same goes with those hispanics who demand Spanish service because they are Miami, so ridiculous and absurd.
Location: miami, fla. enjoying the relative cool, for now ;)
1,085 posts, read 2,531,403 times
Reputation: 1063
Quote:
Originally Posted by ray1945
I have lived in Miami for a long time and long ago accepted the fact that I, as a non-Hispanic white person, am the minority in my hometown. I know that it is a waste of time to complain about what cannot be changed.
However, to read that I, as an non-Spanish speaking American, am being rude when I don't attempt to speak Spanish, kind of rubbed me the wrong way and so I posted my comment. It had nothing to do with whether or not English is an official language and everything to do with the attitude of those who have been so graciously welcomed to my country and, closer to home, my city.
if there is one thing that rubs me wrong it's that. I speak spanish far better than the patois most cubans and central americans attempt to pass off as castillian spanish but when someone calls up on my business line and asks "joo speaki spani?" I respond in english, why? joo no speaki ingli? I do this with a smile on my face and that comes across. if they at least attempt to communicate in english I relent and continue in spanish but if not then I'm done with with them.
this is america and since we stole it from the natives english is the language of the land...er... or is it algonquin?
Class and respect for others. That is what it is all about. There was a young man where I used to work who was Haitian and spoke Creole. However, when he was with me and other non Creole speaking employees, he used to tell this fellow Haitians to speak ENGLISH when other employees were around so as to INCLUDE other coworkers in the conversation.
Whoever thinks Miami or South Florida needs to expand the legal legitimacy of Spanish and Latin culture, we need only look at the failures of Latin-dominated cities like Palermo, Bogota, and Guadalajara and their world class levels of crime, corruption, and poverty.
-------------
Palermo, Sicily?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rock Newman
I asked my self the same question also .... WTF ??
Yes, Palermo, Sicily.
That is a Latin city, no? Italy is a Romance country on the Med., spicy tomato based food, all names end in vowels; corruption, poverty, crime, etc...
I have held my tongue on this issue, but I now will speak my piece.
To begin, English is the de facto language of this country, as it has been since this country's inception and likely will always be, at least until well past any of us cease to be alive. In my view, Spanish really stands no chance of becoming dominant in this country.
It's interesting to me that many say that Spanish is the dominant language of Miami, because even in 2009 I do not see it that way. Only a minority of Miami-area residents speak Spanish well, and of this minority, some speak English even better than Spanish. I am included in this group. Though I am in fluent in spoken and written Spanish, have lived in Spain (where I attended Spanish university), speak Spanish (and English) at home, listen to lots of Spanish-language music, and have a small group of friends among whom I pretty much only converse in Spanish, I was born and raised in this country, work in English, have attended mostly English-language schools, and maintain the majority of my personal and professional relationships in English. When push comes to shove, I have a larger vocabulary in English and can express myself better in English when talking about business, law, and more. When it comes to this last statement, this applies to everyone who has been born and/or primarily raised in this country and also to many of the old-timer Cubans under the age of 50-55. People who came to Miami well into their adult life will almost always choose Spanish over English, as will young people who are recent immigrants, although they will learn to be fully bilingual and may even learn to prefer English. With children, unless they are home-schooled and isolated from other children, there is not a chance in hell that they will grow up to prefer Spanish over English.
The only Miami citizens that should feel an obligation to learn Spanish are those who are interested in working in internationally-related jobs with the Spanish-speaking world. It is not rude to be disinterested in learning Spanish. However, today's young people in Miami (including many of the "Hispanic" kids who speak poor Spanish or no Spanish) should realize that knowing Spanish may open up some career opportunities for them. I tried to convince my sister to expand her vocabulary and actually use some of it, but she wasn't interested. I can't say that I blame her, as 100% of her friends, teachers, and acquaintances speak English. She will soon be a teacher (in the assimilation factory better known as the American public school system), so Spanish is not necessary. As a blue-eyed blonde she sometimes finds it amusing that people in Dolphin Mall or at the gas station will speak to her in Spanish, but when she says she doesn't speak Spanish well, 98% of the people with whom she deals will gladly speak English. It's a non-issue and basically only happens with old people or recent immigrants.
I have a few friends in Miami with whom I will go out in public - to the mall, to restaurants, to the beach - and speak Spanish. If people have a problem with that, then... oh well. However, if I am in a group of five people and only four of them speak Spanish fluently, the conversation will be in English. The reason why? When there is any question as to what the default language is, one needs to go no further than think about where the conversation is taking place: Miami is part of modern-day Florida (yes, leovigildo, we all know la Florida was originally a Spanish colony and that San Agustín was the first European settlement in the US), and Florida is part of the United States, a country where English is the dominant and de facto language of the American people. So yes, palmerodude, it is terribly rude to ignore a non-Spanish speaker in your presence when the rest of you speak English. Miami isn't its own country, and even if it were, Spanish does not even truly dominate there! Big business, law, government, and old money social societies operate in English, a language that is gladly spoken by the Anglo-Americans, Cuban-Americans, and Jewish-Americans who occupy the highest strata of Miami's ruling class.
Spanish is a very special language to me and so is the Latin culture, but if you really want to get away from people who rightfully insist on their continued usage of the English language and continued enjoyment/preservation of the Anglo-Saxon cultural norms, perhaps you should move to Latin America, Italy, Spain, France, or Portugal. Your combative attitude is completely out-of-whack with that of the overwhelming majority of Spanish-speakers with whom I have ever dealt, the majority of whom are glad to speak English because they are in a country whose history is literally written in that language.
Only a minority of Miami-area residents speak Spanish well, and of this minority, some speak English even better than Spanish.
1.2 million people, or 52% of the people in Miami-Dade County are foreign born, or "from somewhere else". Of that 1.2 million, 93% came from Latin America.
Until you can explain how 93% of 1.2 million people of 2.3 million people is a minority, I will respectfully ignore your post.
Nice Post! I would give you point, but "got to spread it around"...
Quote:
Originally Posted by crisp444
I have held my tongue on this issue, but I now will speak my piece.
To begin, English is the de facto language of this country, as it has been since this country's inception and likely will always be, at least until well past any of us cease to be alive. In my view, Spanish really stands no chance of becoming dominant in this country.
It's interesting to me that many say that Spanish is the dominant language of Miami, because even in 2009 I do not see it that way. Only a minority of Miami-area residents speak Spanish well, and of this minority, some speak English even better than Spanish. I am included in this group. Though I am in fluent in spoken and written Spanish, have lived in Spain (where I attended Spanish university), speak Spanish (and English) at home, listen to lots of Spanish-language music, and have a small group of friends among whom I pretty much only converse in Spanish, I was born and raised in this country, work in English, have attended mostly English-language schools, and maintain the majority of my personal and professional relationships in English. When push comes to shove, I have a larger vocabulary in English and can express myself better in English when talking about business, law, and more. When it comes to this last statement, this applies to everyone who has been born and/or primarily raised in this country and also to many of the old-timer Cubans under the age of 50-55. People who came to Miami well into their adult life will almost always choose Spanish over English, as will young people who are recent immigrants, although they will learn to be fully bilingual and may even learn to prefer English. With children, unless they are home-schooled and isolated from other children, there is not a chance in hell that they will grow up to prefer Spanish over English.
The only Miami citizens that should feel an obligation to learn Spanish are those who are interested in working in internationally-related jobs with the Spanish-speaking world. It is not rude to be disinterested in learning Spanish. However, today's young people in Miami (including many of the "Hispanic" kids who speak poor Spanish or no Spanish) should realize that knowing Spanish may open up some career opportunities for them. I tried to convince my sister to expand her vocabulary and actually use some of it, but she wasn't interested. I can't say that I blame her, as 100% of her friends, teachers, and acquaintances speak English. She will soon be a teacher (in the assimilation factory better known as the American public school system), so Spanish is not necessary. As a blue-eyed blonde she sometimes finds it amusing that people in Dolphin Mall or at the gas station will speak to her in Spanish, but when she says she doesn't speak Spanish well, 98% of the people with whom she deals will gladly speak English. It's a non-issue and basically only happens with old people or recent immigrants.
I have a few friends in Miami with whom I will go out in public - to the mall, to restaurants, to the beach - and speak Spanish. If people have a problem with that, then... oh well. However, if I am in a group of five people and only four of them speak Spanish fluently, the conversation will be in English. The reason why? When there is any question as to what the default language is, one needs to go no further than think about where the conversation is taking place: Miami is part of modern-day Florida (yes, leovigildo, we all know la Florida was originally a Spanish colony and that San Agustín was the first European settlement in the US), and Florida is part of the United States, a country where English is the dominant and de facto language of the American people. So yes, palmerodude, it is terribly rude to ignore a non-Spanish speaker in your presence when the rest of you speak English. Miami isn't its own country, and even if it were, Spanish does not even truly dominate there! Big business, law, government, and old money social societies operate in English, a language that is gladly spoken by the Anglo-Americans, Cuban-Americans, and Jewish-Americans who occupy the highest strata of Miami's ruling class.
Spanish is a very special language to me and so is the Latin culture, but if you really want to get away from people who rightfully insist on their continued usage of the English language and continued enjoyment/preservation of the Anglo-Saxon cultural norms, perhaps you should move to Latin America, Italy, Spain, France, or Portugal. Your combative attitude is completely out-of-whack with that of the overwhelming majority of Spanish-speakers with whom I have ever dealt, the majority of whom are glad to speak English because they are in a country whose history is literally written in that language.
Should we start a petition and make this the National Anthem?
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