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Old 07-26-2010, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,708 posts, read 79,857,385 times
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Paying off your student loans in two years will show them how good you are with business.
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Old 07-28-2010, 12:05 PM
 
774 posts, read 2,497,579 times
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Originally Posted by enigmaingr View Post
Believe it! I got the letter (as opposed to the package everyone wants) from the law school and yes, I am an alum. Some programs (mainly PhD programs) actually don't want their own undergrads; likewise, good universities typically don't like to offer professorships to former students. It's a concept called academic inbreeding.

The state residency requirement only applies to undergraduate programs. Grad programs are under no obligation to have a certain percentage of state residents. Having residency, though, is something to mention in your application materials but it only helps you so far as it benefits the school's desire to have a diverse class. In a class dominated by people from the major urban US population centers, being from backwater Michigan will certainly help. But if it comes down to you and the one guy who grew up in South Dakota, you can kiss the spot good bye. Simply put, the number of students who apply from NYC/CHI/LA > Michigan > South Dakota/Wyoming/other outback states.

Having a UM degree does satisfy the unofficial criteria that some snobbish schools have about only admitting students from peer or better schools. Otherwise, you're just like everyone else who has to hustle to get their spot.

The best advice for getting into UM's MBA program, or any good MBA program, remains the same: unless you happen to put together the next Facebook out of your dorm room during your senior year, you'll need some substantive work experience regardless of school or grades. You can assume that most everyone applying to these programs has 3.5+ GPA in accounting, finance, BBAs, etc. from top-flight programs. The deciding factor is what they have done with it since.
I largely agree with this. Ross is an extremely competitive MBA program that draws from a cross-section of students from many of the top undergraduate schools in the country. To get into Ross, you need great grades from a top program, a few years of top notch work experience, and a top GMAT score.

Let me put it bluntly because some of the people on this thread are either sugarcoating the issue or don't understand how difficult it is to get into UM for most of its grad school programs - a degree from UMD will definitely not help you whatsoever in getting into Ross. It might even be an outright liability because the academic rankings and reputation (whether fair or not, they matter a ton) are much different between UMD and Ann Arbor or even lower-ranked research-oriented Big Ten/Big Ten-type schools like Michigan State (much less the Ivy League grads that apply to Ross). Simply put, there's no wiggle room if you go to UMD - top grades, top job experience and a top GMAT score are all going to be required if you want to get into Ross or any other elite MBA program because the UMD degree itself isn't going to be relevant.

So, what's most important is whether a UMD degree is going to aid you in getting a top job experience for you after you graduate from undergrad. Look at where UMD is placing people compared to Ann Arbor in the types of jobs that you would want. While I'm actually a huge proponent of trying to minimize undergrad costs in general, believe me when I tell you that there's a HUGE/MASSIVE/ENORMOUS difference between the perception of an Ann Arbor degree (which is a name brand across the entire country) versus Dearborn. I live in Chicago and a Michigan degree will at least get your foot in the door for highly competitive jobs (and that hurts me to say since I went to Illinois). When every single job opening gets hundreds of resumes (and I know from firsthand experience because I look at a lot of them), that matters greatly. I definitely CANNOT say the same about UMD.

When there's that big of a gap, weigh the short-term costs of your education for the next 4 years versus the opportunities that may or may not be open to you over your entire lifetime. There are certainly anecdotal examples of some people that went to UMD and went to Ross, but that's going to be the exception as opposed to the rule. If you can pay in-state tuition to go to Ann Arbor, I'm telling you unequivocally that it's a big-time bargain for what you get in return. People from NYC are willing to pay Ivy League prices to go to Ann Arbor out-of-state. I guarantee you that's not happening at UMD and there's a reason for that. In your particular case based on what you've said your goals are, it's worth it to pay a bit more in order to be the "rule" as opposed to paying less in the short-term and trying to be the "exception" (which is a big-time risk).

Last edited by Frank the Tank; 07-28-2010 at 12:15 PM..
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Old 08-09-2010, 09:52 PM
 
17 posts, read 69,723 times
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I think you're really undercutting the value of UMD. The school is vastly superior to any of the other public universities in Michigan. I'm willing to bet, that if were you ask where ford, GM, and Chrysler seek their interns, your answer wouldn't involve Wayne State or Central State etc. (And, just for the record, UMD has more interns in the Big Three than Ann Arbor)

However, I'm not going to disagree with you on the idea that Ann Arbor is on a completely different level. I just wish you knew how many idiots that I graduated with that were recently accepted at the Ann Arbor campus. These kids had average grades, upper average test scores, and are WHITE MALES! And, as someone who frequents Ann Arbor, I can attest that this is the demographic of most of their students. It kind of unveils the pretentious and over glorification of the school.
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Old 08-10-2010, 10:55 AM
 
774 posts, read 2,497,579 times
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Originally Posted by ehondo670 View Post
I think you're really undercutting the value of UMD. The school is vastly superior to any of the other public universities in Michigan. I'm willing to bet, that if were you ask where ford, GM, and Chrysler seek their interns, your answer wouldn't involve Wayne State or Central State etc. (And, just for the record, UMD has more interns in the Big Three than Ann Arbor)

However, I'm not going to disagree with you on the idea that Ann Arbor is on a completely different level. I just wish you knew how many idiots that I graduated with that were recently accepted at the Ann Arbor campus. These kids had average grades, upper average test scores, and are WHITE MALES! And, as someone who frequents Ann Arbor, I can attest that this is the demographic of most of their students. It kind of unveils the pretentious and over glorification of the school.
Oh, I know a ton of Michigan grads and believe me when I say that I have no personal love for the school. I also don't doubt that people from UMD can get good jobs after graduation. However, whether it's fair or not, getting into a top MBA program has a large "snob" quotient and Michigan has it. It would be one thing if you were going into a field where pretentiousness isn't very important (i.e. social work), but if you're looking at the top tier finance/consulting/banking jobs that feed into schools like Ross, the name brand of the undergrad school matters a lot. I'm just addressing your original question about what it would take to get into Ross specifically (and by extension, other MBA programs of that caliber) as opposed to whether you can find employment in general.

The main difference is on-campus recruiting. I've worked in some large consulting firms and they have a handful of target schools. Very rarely will they hire from places outside of those target schools (and when they do, the students beat extremely high odds to get there). This is similar to how the main financial and banking firms that feed into schools like Ross, as well. Suffice to say, Michigan is a target school for virtually every top business firm that you can think of (and most importantly, this applies to firms across the entire country as opposed to only the state of Michigan). That's the main value proposition.

Now, this is your first job out of college and I'm sure some people will tell you that it won't matter as much in the long run, but they are erroneously looking at the general job market. In finance/consulting/banking, that first job DOES matter a lot because that's what sets you up to get into a top MBA program and/or progress into other positions in an upward career trajectory. If you don't get in the door in the beginning, it gets increasingly harder to get in as you go along (NOT easier, which is a distinction from other industries).

I'm just trying to paint a picture about REALISTIC opportunities (not the standard romantic "If you work really hard no matter which school you go to, you can do anything you want"). You have to ask yourself a number of questions:

(1) How important is it for you to get into a top MBA program?

(2) What type of industry do you want to work in?

(3) Do you ever want to live outside of the state of Michigan?

(4) What is your income expectation coming out of a particular school versus the student loan debt that you might end up with?

It's never a clear answer because all things are never equal, but consider that people with great resumes on paper are out there still looking for work. You don't want ANY question marks on your resume, and one thing that will never be a question mark on your resume, whether you want to live in Detroit, Chicago or New York City, is a degree from Ann Arbor. Take it from someone that has looked at hundreds of resumes applying for one position - anything less than perfect (including college reputation) is getting tossed aside these days. I've seen how the sausage is made here, so be forewarned: don't be penny-wise and pound-foolish with your education (saving money in the short-term but costing yourself in the long-term), especially if you want to work in the business world.
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Old 08-10-2010, 09:54 PM
 
17 posts, read 69,723 times
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No, I do agree with you. Look at how clueless most of the CEO's at companies that trade in the S & P 500. I swear most of them don't even know what a balance sheet is. They get asked fairly basic questions, and usually respond very ignorantly, and in an inarticulate dialect. But, what do they all have in common (for the most part)? A: An Ivy League background. How disgusting. It wouldn't surprise me to see Paris Hilton in an Ivy League outfit, if she had just a tad ounce of ambition. It's really devastating how we perceive adeptness in this country
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:07 PM
 
436 posts, read 756,179 times
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Originally Posted by ehondo670 View Post
I'm slightly shocked to hear that U of M Ann Arbor students are not entitled entrance into the U of M graduate programs (assuming they performed well enough academically).
Having attended and graduated from University of Michigan Ann Arbor, I can tell you that it does not mean squat if you went to UofM at any campus. I hate to be frank, but you may have a problem getting into UofM MBA without any work experience unless you have a near perfect GPA and GMAT score (most certainly near 800).
Also, while I attended UofM, I took some classes on the Dearborn campus while I was interning during the summer and for a full fall semester, and boy was there a difference in course load. Since English is not my native language, I ended up taking almost all my English classes at the Dearborn campus. I spent a lot of time to get a C in my basic English requirement at Ann Arbor. The 200 level English class I took in Dearborn, I hardly did any work and got an A.
The difficulty between campuses is like light and day. In fact, I took over 20 credits during one fall semester at Dearborn to curve up my overall GPA. It was the only semester that I got a 4.0, and was the only semester I had time to party.
I am not saying that there are not any smart people attending the Dearborn campus. And I am not saying that the Ann Arbor students are all brilliant (In fact, there are idiots everywhere). But, the grading curve is much steeper on the Ann Arbor campus. In general, you are competing with smarter kids and grading is always based on a curve. Go to Ann Arbor SNUGLY (Well, I guess it is not Super New anymore) or any of the other Ann Arbor libraries, and then go to the Dearborn library. UGLY and the Sci library were opened past 4 AM, and usually packed during the school year. The Dearborn library closes at 9 or 10 PM and was always empty. To what I remember, that library was almost always closed (I don't remember, but is it even opened during the weekend?).

Last edited by Thomas_Thumb; 08-11-2010 at 05:48 PM..
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Old 08-11-2010, 05:20 PM
 
436 posts, read 756,179 times
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Oh, and I do know someone who went to Harvard MBA directly from undergraduate. (So I assume there are some students who go directly to Ross after undergraduate.) However, he had a near perfect GPA at MIT, and received a perfect score on the GMAT. I met him through one of my internships, and he was extremely gifted.

Also, if you want some advice, I would recommend not getting a MBA right after undergraduate. There is nothing worse than a MBA graduate with no job experience trying to find a job. Look at WSJ, and they have an ongoing section for MBA people (who have lots of experience and attended elite schools) that are having trouble looking for work.

Last edited by Thomas_Thumb; 08-11-2010 at 05:57 PM..
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