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Great forum. First time poster. We are a family from the west coast. I have a wife and a year old son. We are white, from Portland, Oregon. I have applied for some jobs in Detroit based on the suggestion of a friend of ours who is a Detroiter. The feedback has been good on the resumes I've sent. We have found several houses in the Boston-Edison district that we like. We're seriously considering making this move. However, we do not know much about the area. Boston-Edison has a nice website that makes the neighborhood sound great. What exactly is the situation in that area? Will we be safe? Should we consider other areas? I grew up in the St. Johns area of Portland, which is pretty rough. I think I could do fine there, I am more worried about wife and child. Any info is appreciated.
Uh, are you sure that you want to live in the City of Detroit itself and not a nice suburb? The City is almost all black and has a much higher crime rate than the middle class suburbs. Lately the news has been talking about how a serial rapist has been stalking part of the city and earlier today a wacko walked into a police station and started shooting at the police. (I think he wanted to commit suicide by cop.)
Do yourself, your wife, and your child a favor and look to the suburbs. If you have a decent income you might look into places like Troy, Rochester Hills, Livonia, Farmington Hills, Novi, West Bloomfield, and Commerce Township. If you're going to be working downtown then just accept having to commute which is pretty much what almost all of downtown Detroit's white collar workers do.
Here's a story you might want to read about a black woman who wanted to live in the City of Detroit (not too far from Boston-Edison) and who bought a house there but ended up being chased out by 12 break-ins and finally by having her house set on fire.
The City is almost all black and has a much higher crime rate than the middle class suburbs.
Detroit is diverse and changes from neighborhood to neighborhood. Most suburbs are almost all white, but what difference does race make unless you're racist? Crime in the city also depends on neighborhood, just as it does in the suburbs. If you do some proper research, you can find a decent home in a safe neighborhood in the city or the suburbs.
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Lately the news has been talking about how a serial rapist has been stalking part of the city and earlier today a wacko walked into a police station and started shooting at the police. (I think he wanted to commit suicide by cop.)
The rapist was caught and the wacko was killed by police. These things are TRAGEDIES and occur everywhere across the U.S. Last week a guy from an upscale Detroit suburb slaughtered his entire family before killing himself with a propane tank. Another horrible tragedy, but not reflective of the entire community.
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Do yourself, your wife, and your child a favor and look to the suburbs. If you have a decent income you might look into places like Troy, Rochester Hills, Livonia, Farmington Hills, Novi, West Bloomfield, and Commerce Township.
There are nice suburbs that should be considered, but Troy, Rochester Hills, Farmington Hills, Novi, and West Bloomfield are very expensive. They also have very little character outside of being typical suburbs and have no proximity to cultural attractions or entertainment. If you are commuting to Detroit, take a look at some neighborhoods in the city or some border suburbs like Dearborn, Ferndale, or Grosse Pointe. Those are all fantastic cities with solid housing stocks and close proximity to the city. There's also something in every price range in those three cities.
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If you're going to be working downtown then just accept having to commute which is pretty much what almost all of downtown Detroit's white collar workers do.
No, you don't have to "just accept" having a long commute. It must be a local disease in Metro Detroit where people think spending 45 minutes commuting each way is a good idea. Or, that spending $120/week on gas is a good use of resources. Don't buy into that mentality, especially seeing as most experts see gas going to $5.00/gallon in 2012. People with the short-sightedness to sprawl out 25 miles from where they work are going to get smoked by rising gas prices. They also put up with our worsening road conditions and traffic congestion. Trust me, I used to commute and it just isn't worth it. Now, I walk a few blocks.
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Here's a story you might want to read about a black woman who wanted to live in the City of Detroit (not too far from Boston-Edison) and who bought a house there but ended up being chased out by 12 break-ins and finally by having her house set on fire.
I could post as many "feel good" stories about people moving to Detroit and renovating old houses. I won't waste your time with that, but what I will tell you is that this woman's troubles are not typical. At least, I've never heard of anything like that happening to someone I know and I live in the city.
Lastly, some posters on this forum are seemingly on a crusade to convince anyone and everyone that Detroit is nothing but a hell hole. The City certainly has hellish areas, but that is not universally true. Sift through the information you get here carefully, as many posters have ulterior motives other than providing you the best advice. In full disclosure, I've been called a Detroit troll (someone who overly promotes Detroit), so feel free to take that into account if it helps you interpret the information.
Detroit is diverse and changes from neighborhood to neighborhood. Most suburbs are almost all white, but what difference does race make unless you're racist?
These sentences are complete lies.
Anyone who understands metro Detroit knows that the diversity is in the suburbs, and Detroit has almost no diversity.
If you want diversity, move somewhere like Sterling Heights. Elementary schools in Sterling Heights have students from dozens of nations. Every other student is foreign-born or has foreign-born parents. And there is no dominant immigrant ethnicity.
In contrast, Detroit Public Schools are like 95% black, and there is basically no diversity within the black community (no West Indians, Africans, etc. like you see in NYC, Miami, etc.; almost all Detroit blacks are non-immigrants with roots in the American South).
The one non-black exception within city limits is Southwest Detroit, where the schools are like 90% Mexican, almost all from one Mexican state. Again, little diversity.
Diversity is places like Sterling Heights, Troy, West Bloomfield, Plymouth-Canton, etc. If you want no diversity, move to Detroit (all blacks) or some far-off exurb in Livingston County (all whites).
Also, the claim that nice suburbs are "very expensive" is complete BS. In Troy, for example, an average single family house now sells for like $150,000-$175,000, and with low taxes. Does that sound "very expensive" to you? A single mother working in a lower middle class or even working class job could afford that mortgage.
For Starters is correct. There is diversity in the city, but some neighborhoods (like some suburbs) may cluster people from different ethnicities. The city isn't "95% black" - and even if it were, why would that be a concern? Just because a city has more black than white residents does not make it unsafe.
As for your actual question, The Boston/Edison district is a small neighborhood a little north of downtown Detroit. There are beautiful old homes there. The school district is Detroit Public Schools, which is not considered to be great. There are some decent schools, many underperforming schools, some crime issues. You're pretty much in the heart of the city, but realize that city services are sometimes not terrific.
Think a bit about what it is that you envision for your living environment. If you want to be right in the middle of the big city, in a neighborhood of nice old homes, and don't mind that there are areas nearby with crime issues and abandoned homes, check into Boston/Edison. Some other nice neighborhoods in Detroit include Woodbridge, Sherwood Forest, Indian Village, the University District. Investigate the schools, considering public, charter, and private schools. While you might not want to take a long walk at night outside of your home, there are areas to walk & bike in city, such as the Dequindre Cut, and some parts of the riverfront (our riverfront isn't as well developed for foot traffic as Windsor's is across the border).
You're probably smart to talk to residents who actually live in those communities, rather than some of the people on this site that don't actually live in or know people who live in the communities you're considering. I have friends in the University District, Woodbridge, and Indian Village, and they really love living in the city. None of them have kids in the schools, however.
Please name one ethnic neighborhood or commercial district in the suburbs (outside of East Dearborn) that offers cultural diversity. The suburbs are overwhelmingly white (75-85% on avergage) with minority subsets of either either Asians or blacks. Troy, for example is 75% white and 20% Asian. Or, how about Livonia, which is 90% white- one of the whitest communities in America a few years back- clearly, a pillar of cultural diversity.
In contrast, Detroit has many visible cultural neighborhoods and commercial districts. I buy groceries at a la comida in Mexicantown. People on the street speak Spanish. I can go to Chaldeantown or East Dearborn and be surrounded with Middle Easterners and Arabic cuisine. Hamtramck has a strong Polish community, with a growing Eastern European mix. There's a new neighborhood known as Bangladeshtown emerging with new immmigrants. I can visit traditional black establishments that serve American soul food, or African-influenced establishments. Even Greektown, which is now a tourist neighborhood is still packed with Greek cuisine, culture, and Greek-speaking people. Many neighborhoods, including my own are a mix of races, cultures, and religions all living in close proximity. There is a sense of diversity in the city, especially downtown where there are international visitors always passing through. I don't get any of that from the suburbs and I lived in the 'burbs for many years. Most of my classmates were white, my neighbors were white, and most of my friends growing up were white.
If you want to argue that Detroit and its suburbs are divided along black/white racial lines, I'll agree with you. That situation alone causes a lack of diversity region-wide. But, to assert that the suburbs offer more cultural diversity than the city is way off base.
Sorry to disrupt this Detroit Haters vs Detroit Lovers spat, but to the OP, willamette: You are moving a long way into an area which you are not familiar. I would give this advice whether you were moving to Detroit, Grand Rapids or Lansing: IF you get a job, rent someplace decent first and get to the know the many different areas of a metro area FIRST, before buying anything. You may find you and the family like living in the city or you might find that one of the suburbs is more to your likely. Or, you may miss Oregon so badly you'll want to move in a year.
But you won't know what you're going to like by the responses on this message board. If you want objective information about the diversity in the city and suburbs, check out City-Data's own pages for each one. All the basic information is there for you including crime stats, housing prices, diversity, etc.
No, this is 100% false; For Starters is making stuff up.
Detroit is the least diverse major city in the nation. It's the least diverse major school district in Michigan.
Don't believe me? Go to schooldigger.com and look up any Detroit school. 95% of the schools are almost entirely black, and the remaining 5% (in Southwest Detroit) are almost entirely Mexican.
I like Detroit and wish it well, but I can't stand the wanna-be Chamber of Commerce types who always exaggerate and make up stuff to "sell" Detroit to outsiders.
Again, if you want diversity, check out Sterling Heights, Farmington Hills, West Bloomfield, etc. Every other person is foreign-born or the child of someone foreign-born.
Personally, I don't like these communities, because they're just boring suburban sprawl, but they're definitely 1000 times more diverse than Detroit.
Please name one ethnic neighborhood or commercial district in the suburbs (outside of East Dearborn) that offers cultural diversity.
Umm, are you serious?
Drive down Orchard Lake Road. Tons of Indians, Jews, blacks, Chinese, etc. You can see the ethnic business everywhere.
There is no street in Detroit with Indian, Jewish or Chinese ethnic businesses.
Or go to Sterling Heights or Troy, and check out the strip malls on ANY street. They will pretty much all have at least one Indian restaurant, Albanian market, Arab butcher, Thai take-out, etc. Just drive down Dequindre (or really any street in this area).
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Originally Posted by ForStarters
The suburbs are overwhelmingly white (75-85% on avergage) with minority subsets of either either Asians or blacks. Troy, for example is 75% white and 20% Asian. Or, how about Livonia, which is 90% white- one of the whitest communities in America a few years back- clearly, a pillar of cultural diversity.
A 75% white community is a million times more diverse than Detroit, which is nearly 90% black.
Whites, according to the U.S. Census, includes Arabs, Latinos, Persians, Chaldeans, etc.
Even Livonia is much more diverse than Detroit. Livonia schools are 20% black. Detroit schools have almost no whites.
In contrast, Detroit blacks are overwhelmingly from the American south. They aren't immigrants, and don't have roots in places like the West Indies (like you see in NYC, Miami, etc.)
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Originally Posted by ForStarters
In contrast, Detroit has many visible cultural neighborhoods and commercial districts.
LOL! There is ONE ethnic neighborhood in Detroit! Mexicantown! How is one segregated community an example of diversity?
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Originally Posted by ForStarters
I can go to Chaldeantown or East Dearborn and be surrounded with Middle Easterners and Arabic cuisine.
Umm, Chaldeantown is in Sterling Heights! The Chaldeans abandoned Detroit decades ago! All their businesses are in the suburbs! The old Chaldean neighborhood on 7 Mile is a bombed out nothing!
Why do you think Sterling Heights is the #1 city in the country for Iraqi refugees?
And East Dearborn is a suburb! There are no Arab neighborhoods in Detroit.
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Originally Posted by ForStarters
Hamtramck has a strong Polish community, with a growing Eastern European mix. There's a new neighborhood known as Bangladeshtown emerging with new immmigrants.
Another suburb. Not in Detroit.
The Poles and Eastern Europeans community in Hamtramck is mostly long-gone anyways. Hardly "strong" or "growing". They're even leaving Warren and Sterling Heights for Shelby Township, Macomb Township, etc.
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Originally Posted by ForStarters
I can visit traditional black establishments that serve American soul food, or African-influenced establishments.
Yes, we're perfectly aware that Detroit has black establishments. It's 90% black!
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Originally Posted by ForStarters
Even Greektown, which is now a tourist neighborhood is still packed with Greek cuisine, culture, and Greek-speaking people.
Greektown has no Greek residents, so you're again exaggerating. It's a one-block tourist trap, and all the recently open restaurants are non-Greek (Five Guys, barbecue place, steakhouse, seafood house, etc.).
Greek folks live in the suburbs, not Detroit. This has been true for half-a-century.
Drive down Orchard Lake Road. Tons of Indians, Jews, blacks, Chinese, etc. You can see the ethnic business everywhere.
There is no street in Detroit with Indian, Jewish or Chinese ethnic businesses.
Or go to Sterling Heights or Troy, and check out the strip malls on ANY street. They will pretty much all have at least one Indian restaurant, Albanian market, Arab butcher, Thai take-out, etc. Just drive down Dequindre (or really any street in this area).
Okay, well you're entitled to your opinion, but I think anyone who has lived in Metro Detroit for an extended period of time will agree that the city is and feels far more culturally diverse than any of the suburbs. With few exceptions the suburbs are homogeneous white communities and certainly appear that way.
Just as an aside, I don't count Chinese take-out restaurants in strip malls as cultural diversity.
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A 75% white community is a million times more diverse than Detroit, which is nearly 90% black.
Whites, according to the U.S. Census, includes Arabs, Latinos, Persians, Chaldeans, etc.
Even Livonia is much more diverse than Detroit. Livonia schools are 20% black. Detroit schools have almost no whites.
In contrast, Detroit blacks are overwhelmingly from the American south. They aren't immigrants, and don't have roots in places like the West Indies (like you see in NYC, Miami, etc.)
First of all, Detroit is 75% black as of the 2000 census, not 90% as you claim. //www.city-data.com/city/Detroit-Michigan.html There is also evidence as of this year that the racial makeup of the city is changing because more whites are moving back to the city.
Livonia is one of the least diverse cities in the U.S.A. and it is has been formally recognized as such by the national media. It is more than 90% white, and many of its residents are proud to brag about that fact.
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LOL! There is ONE ethnic neighborhood in Detroit! Mexicantown! How is one segregated community an example of diversity?
Umm, Chaldeantown is in Sterling Heights! The Chaldeans abandoned Detroit decades ago! All their businesses are in the suburbs! The old Chaldean neighborhood on 7 Mile is a bombed out nothing!
Why do you think Sterling Heights is the #1 city in the country for Iraqi refugees?
And East Dearborn is a suburb! There are no Arab neighborhoods in Detroit.
Another suburb. Not in Detroit.
Chaldeantown is not dead and although East Dearborn is a suburb, it borders Detroit on three sides and is far more akin to Detroit in every way than it is other suburbs. I can drive in and out of Dearborn from Detroit and back without knowing I've crossed a threshhold. The neighborhoods blend seamlessly together and one would never know they had left Detroit and entered Dearborn if it weren't for the Arabic lettering on all the signage.
Mexicantown is a huge cultural enclave. It is unlike any other in Michigan other than East Dearborn. The area is dominated by Hispanic markets, restaurants, clothing stores, and other shops. Neighborhood residents speak Spanish as a first language. This is an example of true cultural diversity. One can actually be immersed in that particular culture by spending time there. Having two Asian families live in one's subdivision does not constitute an immersion in anything, it is just more of the same with some foreign residents peppered in.
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The Poles and Eastern Europeans community in Hamtramck is mostly long-gone anyways. Hardly "strong" or "growing". They're even leaving Warren and Sterling Heights for Shelby Township, Macomb Township, etc.
Yes, we're perfectly aware that Detroit has black establishments. It's 90% black!
Greektown has no Greek residents, so you're again exaggerating. It's a one-block tourist trap, and all the recently open restaurants are non-Greek (Five Guys, barbecue place, steakhouse, seafood house, etc.).
Greek folks live in the suburbs, not Detroit. This has been true for half-a-century.
Hamtramck is bordered on all sides by Detroit proper. It is integrated with the city and has nothing in common with typical suburbs. It is as much a part of Detroit as Highland Park or any other district in the city. Where else do you think Detroit's Poletown neighborhood got its name? Hamtramck is one of the largest and widely known Polish enclaves in the world outside of Europe. As immigration from Poland has declined, immigrants from other parts of the world have filled in the gaps. There is a continuous stream of new migration into that area, including people from Bangladesh, Eastern Europe, Asia, and the Middle East.
In terms of Greektown, I agree that it is mostly a tourist trap, not unlike what Little Italy has become in New York City. That said, the Greeks have preserved their heritage in that area and many people who work in Greektown are old Greeks who speak Greek and eat Greek food. If you are counting Thai food take-out places in strip malls on Orchard Lake Road, I'm definitely counting Greektown as a diverse city neighborhood.
Last edited by ForStarters; 01-24-2011 at 06:35 PM..
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