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Old 02-15-2011, 06:23 PM
 
4,852 posts, read 8,730,925 times
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Did any of you see this on the news tonight? I can't believe that he is proposing this so early in his term. I guess if nothing else, it proves that he has no aspirations of becoming a career politician, since this is political suicide.

Gov. Rick Snyder plans to tax pensions | Detroit Free Press | freep.com (http://www.freep.com/article/20110215/NEWS06/110215061/1001/rss01 - broken link)

I voted for him, but I can't support this. My dh was already talking about moving somewhere with less snow, and when he heard this he said that if this happens he will be more motivated than ever to leave this great state. Color me blue...

Last edited by canudigit; 02-15-2011 at 06:38 PM..
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Old 02-16-2011, 05:22 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan
1,107 posts, read 2,940,004 times
Reputation: 534
Quote:
Michigan is considered one of the most generous states for retirees to avoid taxes.
Quote:
About 95% of Michiganders 65 and older don’t pay any state income tax, including some who earn $100,000 a year or more from pensions, Social Security and IRA and 401(k) withdrawals.
Isn't that freeloading? Pay into the system! Yet you all complain about the people on welfare and public transit.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:02 AM
 
4,852 posts, read 8,730,925 times
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Pensioners have been "paying into the system" their entire working lives! In my dh's case, that is 31+ years and counting, since he is still working. Right now I get up in the morning and go to work, and work hard, so that other people can sit on their cans on my dime. By the time I can draw a pension, why should I continue to be taxed to the eyeballs, when a lot of people never pay into the system their entire lives?

This is just wrong. Prices on everything continue to go up, up, up. Why take it out on people on a fixed income who have contributed all of their lives? IMHO, if they worked hard all of their lives to be the backbone of this great country, then retirees SHOULD get a well-earned break.

I can imagine that people who won't work would be thrilled if this plan ever actually happens. More of other people's money for them to waste while lying around trying to think of something to do. You know, "spread the wealth", aka, penalize people who have worked hard all of their lives to have a decent income and quality of life so that people who won't work can benefit from the hard work of others.

Last edited by canudigit; 02-16-2011 at 06:16 AM..
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:04 AM
 
485 posts, read 921,994 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by canudigit View Post
Did any of you see this on the news tonight? I can't believe that he is proposing this so early in his term. I guess if nothing else, it proves that he has no aspirations of becoming a career politician, since this is political suicide.

Gov. Rick Snyder plans to tax pensions | Detroit Free Press | freep.com (http://www.freep.com/article/20110215/NEWS06/110215061/1001/rss01 - broken link)

I voted for him, but I can't support this. My dh was already talking about moving somewhere with less snow, and when he heard this he said that if this happens he will be more motivated than ever to leave this great state. Color me blue...
I'm certainly surprised by this. I am also a Snyder supporter (as well as pension recipient) and will continue to be even if this is implemented, however, I consider it a tax increase and do not support it. Frankly, he'll have an uphill fight to get it passed. If it is, I believe there will be a healthy exemption involved so that small-pension folks will not get hit.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:17 AM
 
4,852 posts, read 8,730,925 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyInGreatLakes View Post
I'm certainly surprised by this. I am also a Snyder supporter (as well as pension recipient) and will continue to be even if this is implemented, however, I consider it a tax increase and do not support it. Frankly, he'll have an uphill fight to get it passed. If it is, I believe there will be a healthy exemption involved so that small-pension folks will not get hit.
I sure hope so. And yes, it is definitely a tax increase and another attempt to squeeze more out of those who have already given the most.

Last edited by canudigit; 02-16-2011 at 06:29 AM..
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:22 AM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
17,988 posts, read 16,129,461 times
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It seems only fair to me. It is income. I don't see why retirees should be treated as a privileged class. If anything, we should reduce the tax burden on young people who are just starting out in life. Old folks have had a lifetime to prepare.
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Old 02-16-2011, 06:40 AM
 
485 posts, read 921,994 times
Reputation: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by canudigit View Post
Pensioners have been "paying into the system" their entire working lives! In my dh's case, that is 31+ years and counting, since he is still working. Right now I get up in the morning and go to work, and work hard, so that other people can sit on their cans on my dime. By the time I can draw a pension, why should I continue to be taxed to the eyeballs, when a lot of people never pay into the system their entire lives?

This is just wrong. Prices on everything continue to go up, up, up. Why take it out on people on a fixed income who have contributed all of their lives? IMHO, if they worked hard all of their lives to be the backbone of this great country, then retirees SHOULD get a well-earned break.

I can imagine that people who won't work would be thrilled if this plan ever actually happens. More of other people's money for them to waste while lying around trying to think of something to do. You know, "spread the wealth", aka, penalize people who have worked hard all of their lives to have a decent income and quality of life so that people who won't work can benefit from the hard work of others.
If you've paid any of your own money into the system, it cannot be taxed again anyway (fed OR state).
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Old 02-16-2011, 07:51 AM
 
362 posts, read 665,932 times
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He is a busness man just like he kept saying all thru the campain. So busness gets a tax break (the people who provided most of the money for the campain.) and the retires get a tax increase. And yes it will pass since the GOP controls Lansing now.

Still waiting for those jobs he was going to make too.

Al
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:13 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,259 posts, read 74,492,155 times
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This will come more and more and eventually the Federal Government will have to do it too. There are, or will be too many people not working and not enough working. Much of this country's wealth is depeleted due to the Real Estate bubble, the fal of manufacturing, etc. There is no source of omeny left to fund all of the government programs except people's retirement accounts. There is no way to support those who did not save for retirmenet, except to take money from those who did. People are living longer and retiring earlier. They must make some changes to accomodate the realities. They will ahve to raise the retirement age, probably to 68, then 70 and eventually 72. THey will also have to tax retirement accounts.

Is it fair? No. Who ever said anyhting about our society is fair?

Is it fair that Juan was born the son of a drug addict and I was born the son of an engineer? Is it fair that someone with an advanced degree is paid 10 -30 times what someone with no degree is paid?

Sorry, nothing about our society is fair and we are kidding ourselves if we think government or anyone else can make it fair.


However the bottom line is that the government is not going to suspend its programs. Nor are they going to allow retirees who did not save for retirmenet to starve. Where else is money going to come from for Government? Personal incomes are going down. It never works out to tax the very rich, and that will nto generate enough moeny anyway. Property values have plummeted, so they are not going to get more money out of propery tax. Business taxes render our businesses uncompetitive, so they leave.

While I am all for shutting down some aspects of government, it is simply not going to happen. So the government has to find more money to continue to function. Everyone is going to feel the pinch. Even retirees. That stinks, but it is really unavoidable.

I am glad that they are at least being responsible and realizing that they cannot just keep borrowing. I wish that they would make more cuts, but that would probably mean closing parks, libraries, museums, shutting down symphonies, cutting back on free lunch programs at schools, ending counseling, mental health programs paid for by the Government, mowing grass on public lands, maybe even some of the public snow removal. There are a lot of things that could be cut or closed, but they are terrible things to have to eliminate. All of them will be political suicide. THe only way to avoid political suicide is to borrow more money. However people have now become astute enough that more borrowing could be political suicide also.

Sooner or later people have to face the fact that we are going to be taxed more, make less and have less things and opportunities. Every single person or group says cut somethng else, tax someone or something else. However they have to cut everywhere, and tax everywhere, and then they will have to cut and tax some more.

I am really concerned about what they are going to do about roads. They need to massively increase what they spend on road repair and repalcement, but they cannot. The roads are getting incredibly bad. They may have to just close, or stop maintianing some of the remote roads and focus on the major thourghfares and collectors. Peopel in the remote areas may have to either move, stock up and just no leave during bad conditions, or buy specialty vehicles to get them to a viable roadway. That is also not fair, and too bad, but we cannto continue to pay hundreds of thousands of dollars to maintain and plow a road with five people living on it. It just is not practical.

Sewers are a huge concern too. Parts of our sewer treatment and transission sysem are shot. They will not continue to function unless they get some attention. Where is all that sewage going to go? At least they can deal with those expenses by increasing water usage rates.


These problems are endemic to every State, not just here. You cannot run away from them. Michigan has to come up with soemthing like $1 -2 billion in cuts or additional taxes. California for example needs something like $55 billion. We are in trouble, but no where near the condition of many states.

It is odd that people, especially politicains, simply cannot accept this. They do not realize that programs that have been ongoing for decades can no longer be sustained. Government can no longer do what is used to do and they cannot wield the power they they would have had ten years ago. The great easy times are gone. It is time to buckle down and work hard again and build things back up.



"If you've paid any of your own money into the system, it cannot be taxed again anyway (fed OR state)."

You need to add "Under current laws"

Anything can be taxed. They just need to change the law and tax it.

Look at income. We pay tax when we get it, we pay tax when we spend it. In some states, you pay tax on your taxes. There is no such thing as "cannot"
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Old 02-16-2011, 08:15 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,259 posts, read 74,492,155 times
Reputation: 38296
Quote:
Originally Posted by alleyyooper View Post
Still waiting for those jobs he was going to make too.

Al
Patiently waiting for six whole weeks?


If they are able to create any significant additioanl jobs, you will not see it until he has been ousted for failing to create jobs. Then the next guy can take credit. That is assuming that they can actually do anything other than simply stem the tide of job losses. We ahve to rid this cycle out, plain and simple. The government is nto going to give us the answers to this problem.
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