[michigan83]

We are paying Big Oil for the privilege of being gouged!
In case anyone's wondering how they get away with it, they and the banks have enough economic power to shut this country down if they so desire.
All they have to do is let our govt know it.
Remember, being multinationals, the U.S. is only a part of their market. They can prosper without us.

Just playing devil's advocate here, because I do NOT like the idea of subsidizing big oil companies (which I wasn't really aware that we were doing.)

If subsidizing oil means that our prices are lower than in the rest of the world, then you can't really say we are "paying for the privilege of being gouged." Because even though prices are relatively high by our standards, we are still paying way less than in places like Europe. We've been enjoying cheap gas for years and years. So we ARE benefiting from the oil subsidies. Right? Again, not saying I agree with it. But you can't say that we're giving them our money and getting nothing in return, because it's not technically true. We save money at the pump.

Again... don't point out the reasons that oil subsidies are bad!! I am already aware of them. Just trying to reign in the crazy statements like "they take our money and then screw us and we get nothing!"

[detwahDJ]

Arguer, first you weren't aware of subsidies, and then you were.
Some aren't aware of them or they think they're ok.
NationalJournal.com - Ex-Shell CEO Says Big Oil Can Live Without Subsidies - Friday, February 11, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/04/business/04bptax.html
I want to end subsidies for people who don't need them, even if you think it's better they don't.
GE, Exxon Paid No U.S. Income Taxes in 2009 - ABC News
I want huge corporations and other profitable companies to pay U.S. taxes along with the rest of us.
BTW "gouging" means we may be paying more than what market forces dictate.

[michigan83]

Originally Posted by detwahDJ

Arguer, first you weren't aware of subsidies, and then you were.
Some aren't aware of them or they think they're ok.
NationalJournal.com - Ex-Shell CEO Says Big Oil Can Live Without Subsidies - Friday, February 11, 2011
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/07/04/business/04bptax.html
I want to end subsidies for people who don't need them, even if you think it's better they don't.
GE, Exxon Paid No U.S. Income Taxes in 2009 - ABC News
I want huge corporations and other profitable companies to pay U.S. taxes along with the rest of us.
BTW "gouging" means we may be paying more than what market forces dictate.

Please Google the phrase "playing Devil's advocate." I already agree with you. I'm just pointing out that we do get SOMETHING in return for oil subsidies. Lower prices.

[detwahDJ]

Originally Posted by michigan83

Please Google the phrase "playing Devil's advocate." I already agree with you. I'm just pointing out that we do get SOMETHING in return for oil subsidies. Lower prices.

Mich, my response WAS to the "devil's advocate" and others.
Notice sentence #2: "Some aren't aware..." I had them in mind for my post.
It gave me an excuse to post some links (there are more but I wanted to keep it short)
I notice some others were questioning the EXISTENCE of subsidies, which is mind boggling to me. Where would people get the idea there are A) no subsidies or B) that the oil companies are "ours" in any way, shape or form. Could it be a corporate-owned "news" media which pumps out commercials posing as news?
I stand behind my statement of being gouged. As long as there's nothing to prevent it, it will be done.
But the OP was about Michigan. Low-wage workers would be impacted. Assuming a 30mpg car traveling 30 miles to a job comes to $13 round trip.
$65 weekly, $260 monthly vs $130 now. An extra $130 per mo. And this is just to work - nothing else.

[alleyyooper]

I know a young lady wyho works at a low wage job and her car is an older sub compact one since a low wage job will not allow for a newer more fuel efficent one. She lives 8 miles from her job so she is spending over $65.00 a month for fuel just to get to work. She lives with her grandma and would have to live on the street if not for that with the high rents in the area.

Any way I watched a PBS program where they are useing E Col I to turn switch grass sugars into bio diesel. The narater said that it will really help the mid west farmers when they can sell a crop that is fairly easy to grow on less than ideal ground.

Al

[JimmyInGreatLakes]

Originally Posted by detwahDJ

Mich, my response WAS to the "devil's advocate" and others.
Notice sentence #2: "Some aren't aware..." I had them in mind for my post.
It gave me an excuse to post some links (there are more but I wanted to keep it short)
I notice some others were questioning the EXISTENCE of subsidies, which is mind boggling to me. Where would people get the idea there are A) no subsidies or B) that the oil companies are "ours" in any way, shape or form. Could it be a corporate-owned "news" media which pumps out commercials posing as news?
I stand behind my statement of being gouged. As long as there's nothing to prevent it, it will be done.
But the OP was about Michigan. Low-wage workers would be impacted. Assuming a 30mpg car traveling 30 miles to a job comes to $13 round trip.
$65 weekly, $260 monthly vs $130 now. An extra $130 per mo. And this is just to work - nothing else.

How can we be getting "gouged" when we pay the lowest price anywhere on the planet for a gallon of gas? As M83 pointed out, at least we get lower prices for the subsidized gas.

[wagonman76]

Originally Posted by JimmyInGreatLakes

How can we be getting "gouged" when we pay the lowest price anywhere on the planet for a gallon of gas? As M83 pointed out, at least we get lower prices for the subsidized gas.

Well it looks like a lot of the world pays more for gas than we do, but we are nowhere near the lowest prices on the planet.

World Gas Prices By Country | Gasoline Petrol Price & Hybrid Sales

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by Gnutella

Personally, I shudder at the thought of $6 per gallon gas. We already know that $4 per gallon will break the economy's back like it did in 2008, but I think $5 per gallon will be the real flashpoint. That's when we'll get the civil unrest to go with the economic collapse.

What's amazing is that even after the 2008 price spike, people continued to purchase gas guzzling SUVs and pickup trucks. I wonder how they'll feel about those purchases if gas goes up to $5/gallon. I shudder to think of what it would do to the Big Three.

[Bhaalspawn]

Originally Posted by NATIVEYOOPER

Time to get out the locking gas cap again

A few years ago, my wife suspected that someone was stealing gas from her Oldsmobile, but perhaps it was just a case of an older 140,000 mile car getting awful gas mileage.

Isn't it impossible to siphon gas out of newer vehicles? Aren't their tanks designed a little differently?

[wagonman76]

Maybe, but today's thieves have ways that are a lot easier than screwing around with a siphon. I saw it on the news awhile back. Thanks to cordless tools and plastic tanks, it's a piece of cake to drill a hole in the tank and catch the gas in a portable container. Siphons are for law abiding citizens who want to transfer gas and not cause damage. Thieves don't care.

Maybe a good idea for a business would be fab and install a custom fitted skid plate to guard the tank. To protect from both thieves and road hazards. They already do it with some trucks just for off-roading, but as gas becomes more valuable, it might be worth it for cars too.