[bubbagirl]

I'm sure there are several Arab breeders that produce national champions that would contest the half arab registry claim you just made... in fact, selling half arab geldings is among one of the biggest money makers for many Arab breeders as amatuer or junior mounts, or even as high stepping park horses.... I can even point you in a direction of national calibur HALF Arabians that are purposely being produced by a farm that holds SEVERAL regional and national titles... I'm sure they breed 'em, raise 'em and sell 'em (at several thousand a piece green broke) because there is absolutely no market for them.

But, heck, who am I to say anything.... I certainly don't know what I'm talking about, obviously, because I've never shipped one of my horses off to Worlds or Nationals.....

Except my QH mare was a full sister to two World Champions in WP, but my mare didn't go... so I guess that doesn't account to much.

And all those sport horse riders that take their worthless "grade" horse out to compete and WIN don't know how to pick 'em, right?

The value of the horse has dropped significantly in the state of Michigan. Yes, the overall value is decreased in a situation of several broodies without papers or training. There is no denying that. But, a horse's worth has a little more to do with how it is built and what it is capable of... not necessarily who mom and dad were - that is just a selling point. And to further that, just look at ANY online classifieds and tell me that ALL the registered horses listed for sale are of much better quality in temperment and build than ANY of the non-reg variety.

[Driller1]

Originally Posted by bubbagirl

I'm sure there are several Arab breeders that produce national champions that would contest the half arab registry claim you just made... in fact, selling half arab geldings is among one of the biggest money makers for many Arab breeders as amatuer or junior mounts, or even as high stepping park horses.... I can even point you in a direction of national calibur HALF Arabians that are purposely being produced by a farm that holds SEVERAL regional and national titles... I'm sure they breed 'em, raise 'em and sell 'em (at several thousand a piece green broke) because there is absolutely no market for them.

But, heck, who am I to say anything.... I certainly don't know what I'm talking about, obviously, because I've never shipped one of my horses off to Worlds or Nationals.....

Except my QH mare was a full sister to two World Champions in WP, but my mare didn't go... so I guess that doesn't account to much.

And all those sport horse riders that take their worthless "grade" horse out to compete and WIN don't know how to pick 'em, right?

The value of the horse has dropped significantly in the state of Michigan. Yes, the overall value is decreased in a situation of several broodies without papers or training. There is no denying that. But, a horse's worth has a little more to do with how it is built and what it is capable of... not necessarily who mom and dad were - that is just a selling point. And to further that, just look at ANY online classifieds and tell me that ALL the registered horses listed for sale are of much better quality in temperment and build than ANY of the non-reg variety.

Ah, not better quality, better marketability. But OK, let us say they take the horses for profit. Where is it? They place them in homes, little (if any) charge. They do not promote and sale for profit. Where is the gain?

[bubbagirl]

Are you meaning the horses in Jackson Co?

The profit is not in sale price, it is in volume with these horses. Anyone that knows these animals knows what they are getting. And, the judge ordered last night that the owners have to turn over 2 of their stallions as well, Sky High Fame and Buggy Full of Money. I'm sure you can find a write up of both of those stallions somewhere on the net.

The county has already seponed for the papers on these horses. I'm certain they will find a way to get said papers.

With horses with good breeding (and it is known they are of good stock, not just some random backyard operation with who knows what bloodlines), these animals will generate interest, papers or no papers.

So, what if they are adopted out at a modest $500 a piece for single horses, $700 mare and foal excluding the stallions. That comes out to $27000 for regular stock, $10500 for combos. And, of course, they will put high dollars on the studs - they have proven records. They could easily go for $20-50K a piece. Considering that there were over $50K in monetary donations and over $20K taken in hay donations, which of course none of the money has been accounted for ... the county truly has not spent any of their own money for the care of these animals. So, anything brought in by the horses is just gravy at that point. Meanwhile, the county is still taking the owners for everything they are worth... planning to charge them with $200,000 in restitution because they know these men could have this much in assets. Tell me again where there is no profit being made?

Correct me if I misinterpreted what you were asking...

[Driller1]

The Horse: Michigan Men to Stand Trial, Forfeit Horses in Neglect Case

You may suppose this, but not me. Nuff said.

[bubbagirl]

You are only willing to take an account based on an interview with only one source?

There was food and water upon arrival, there are photos and reputable testimony to support that.

The property was used as a dumping ground by the owners, these men only rented it and had a purchase agreement already signed for a new farm, they were waiting to move the animals. They did not have the horses exposed to the trash left by the property owners, but there was some debre in the pastures that worked itself up every spring. (and yes, this is possible and logical; the barn I've leased of a 5 year span continually had certain areas work up broken glass, miscellaneous equipment parts, wood, etc)

The hip injury was documented as an injury AFTER the seizure.

Still waiting on proof that "half the herd" was pregnant. Owners only had exposed certain mares and documented as such.

But, I guess if I were one to only take the media's word as the whole truth, nothing but the truth, and the sole truth... I'd be right with ya! Because we all know there are no media sources that give unbiased reportings.

For kicks n giggles, check out what they have to say... just try it out, then you can at least say you gave both sides a shot, not just one....
GLHorseTruth.com

AND AGAIN... at this point it is not about the right or wrong of the owners....

It is about a government body completely ignoring the LAW and imposing authority and power they do not have while overlooking the citizens' civil liberties. If this stand, anyone can come to your barn and say, in THEIR opinion, your horses are malnourished. They do not have to have medical fact to back this up, and the animals do not have be grossly under weight or look bad. And then... They will have the right to seize EVERYTHING of yours that they feel is "related" to the welfare of the horses - computers, trailers, trucks, equipment, personal electronics, etc.

I personally do not agree with the house keeping that these owners had, but I also don't agree with Sundance's housekeeping. They are very similar, believe it or not. Does that mean the horses were neglected, because they were standing in mud? Or, the owners purchased "used" blankets for their horses to wear, so therefore they "obviously don't care about them" according to the judge as stated about the used equipment purchased.

How obtuse and ignorant to feather and tar horse owners because they don't put up the money for squeeky clean facilities, miles and miles of endless pasture, and bed each animal in a stall every night.... and then to use a biased report as 'support' of your opinion? Wow.

[Driller1]

I looked at the pictures. They made me want to cry. If you think this is OK, please rid yourself of livestock. Why was de-liceing power needed? I have owned 30 or 35 horse over the years, they NEVER had lice, or caked on manure. SAD !!!

[Driller1]

Looks like you not only had to leave the county, you had to leave the state. Ohio has laws to. I will be contracting animal control in your area for a "heads-up".

[bubbagirl]

And if my animals were in danger, I suspect they would have already been taking. I already stated I did not agree with their housekeeping. Go take a trip to Sundance... lemme know what you think, eh? Oh yeah, I can let you know where the horses go for the winter.... They look fabulous in about March....

Oh yeah, most of Sundance horses has lice, among other things... I keep lice powder on hand too, something about having cattle housed next door... can never be too careful.

But, this isn't about them... it is about their civil liberties being denied and that opening the door for the rest of us.

Again, you're dancing around that issue. How sad.

I'll take that as a personal threat on the "heads up" for the county government in my area...... Since you obviously don't know me, my animals, or my caretaking from Adam. I left the state for reasons not associated with problems with AC - so mind telling me why the low blow statement?

Are we resulting in personal attacks now?

Feel free to contact me privately for information on the care of my animals if your so 'concerned' - would love to show you the pics I took this past weekend. But, that would be at the risk of proving your statement was a personal attack with no grounds of truth, so I guess contacting me is at your own risk.

[Driller1]

Originally Posted by bubbagirl

Yours and everyone elses it seems... Yes, AC is corrupt and screwed up. There was a severe neglect case out of Eaton Co not too long ago that went on ignored and many of the Clydes starved to death. Yet, last year, Eaton Co AC targeted my horses because they were bent on seizing them. The horses were located on over 10 acres of knee deep pasture, were up to weight and in great shape, but they attempted to cite me for neglect because I did not have hay on premise. Oh yeah, this was middle of July and the fight went on through the first week of November.. and by then, I was smart enough to move my horses out of county to end the harassment. I filed complaints and grievences with the sheriff and prosecuting attorney, and NO ONE would help me. And I have evidence proving my horses were well cared for at that time.

It seems like more and more agencies are targetting specific owners, harrassing the heck out of them, yet completely ignoring the animals that really need help. There is no money to be made in those cases, but there is money in the cases that animals are cared for and trained, and in my case, high dollar stock horses and one very expensive and well bred Arab.

Your statement that you have ran before.

[bubbagirl]

Just can't stop, can't let it be? This certainly is not about me, and certainly not about what happened with me a year ago. This is about government agencies throwing your rights out the window.

Oh yeah, did I forget to mention I removed the horses from my property last November, not only because I was being harrassed EVERY SINGLE WEEK by the same AC officer - yet, she had no complaints on me, no grounds to cite me, nor any reason to harrass me... yet, CONTINUED to show up at my property attempting to find fault somewhere - but also because it was November and I didn't want to drive 25 mins to feed everyone 2x a day, I would rather drive 5? Oh, I'm so sorry... I didn't know I was entitled to make my life more convenient to take care of my own animals.

Get on the real issue here, quite dancing around what is going on. If you want to stand up for your rights as a livestock owner, great. If you don't, then this obviously doesn't affect you to the point of action. Don't dig up an argument for the sake of arguing. It is silly and redundent.

A sample of last year's pictures. If you then believe, by looking at these pictures, that AC had grounds to nail me with neglect then you're obviously looking to dig up an argument with me. I consider this crap about how I "ran" from AC closed - and I will report you to the moderators for stepping out of line if it continues.