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Old 04-28-2011, 08:49 AM
 
12,630 posts, read 7,638,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chiroptera View Post
LOL...I am so far from being a conservative it's not even funny...I am mostly a liberal tree-hugger/blue dog democrat. I suppose IS labels everyone who expresses disagreement or questions his stance is summarily labeled a "white conservative" as a perjorative...way to stay classy.

Can't argue with the "white" label (well more like pink and beige LOL) but nothing I can do about that.
Can you read? I noted what group I feared the most......which is not sysnonymous with which group is racist. There are plenty of liberal white racist that are not willing to cut off their nose to spite their face. In other words, they have a vested interest in some liberal policies, such as the womens right to choose, the environment, gay rights, labor issues, Medicare, Social Security or something of that nature. Thats what tilts them liberal and they have to join with blacks under the liberal tent to win elections, even if they don't like blacks. Now, in the South and likely other places to a lesser degree, some people are so full of hate that they will stunt themselves economically just to keep black folks from getting help too. Some people are against liberal policies only because they don't want to see blacks get helped.....so they deny themselves help as well, as some are dirt poor. They hang on to their "whiteness" as the thing that makes them superior to blacks...so they join with white conservatives against social programs and liberalism because many see welfare and entitlement with a black face. Why do you think that the US is the only majority white nation that does not have liberal or borderline socialist policies? Its because whites don't mind as much supporting other whites as they do the idea of supporting non whites, primarily black, who they see as lazy.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 04-28-2011 at 08:57 AM..
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:00 AM
 
12,630 posts, read 7,638,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
People do tend to get angry when someone comes on here, not debating, but baiting others in an attempt to make them angry. Some people get their kicks that way. They don't want to hear the truth. They don't want facts. They simply want to stir people up.
Oh please! Are you credulous children being led astray by a bad man?
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:03 AM
 
3,090 posts, read 2,916,225 times
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Check your history about the jewish Involvement in the civil rights movement. We were big in support of black rights. You talk about angry white conservatives all thru this thread. Who has said they are even a conservative? You asume but do so in such a general way so you can hide behind your historical bias. You say i am making things up but that what you say is fact. Ok am i making this up... There are polictical leaders in the world who say the holicaust never happened and that all jews should be killed. That isreal and all its people should be pushed into the sea. That scares me way more than angry conservatives who are pieceful protesting as the tea party movement. By the way jews historically vote dem. I am happy to be in my peoples minority and vote conservative. But by no way am i a angry white man.
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:05 AM
 
12,630 posts, read 7,638,308 times
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Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
Good grief. I agree with you quite often and have a lot of respect for the stance that you take, but this is ridiculous.

It hasn't really escalated in the U.S. yet, but in Europe, the liberal youth movement is responsible for a lot of violence and rioting. Threats to cut entitlements have resulted in riots, and those people are NOT conservative. Thankfully, here things have been mostly peaceful. The protesters in Wisconsin have been largely peaceful. But so have the Tea Party protesters, right? Makes me thankful to live in the U.S. But that's not to say that we aren't going to see violence from the left in the future as the government tries to cut spending and entitlements. If you don't think the leftists and unions are capable of violence, you are being extremely biased and naive. I really hope we don't see it.
Why is it ridiculous that I fear conservative elements in times of crisis and upheaval more than I do liberal elements? When I map the type of mind set that terrorized and lynched black folks in the early part of the twentieth century....they would be part of the Republican Party today, although many were democrates back then. That mindset formed the "Dixicrat" Party in the 60's in opposition to democrats support of integration. However, that party was never viable to win national elections so many of its members slowly migrated to the republican party and that has been the home of that type of mindset every since. Of course, all conservatives are not like this because I myself find myself to agree with conservative positions from time to time. In fact, many black people are very conservative and religous like evangelicals.....but it is the issue of race that keeps blacks from supporting the Republican party. We know that there is a significant anti-black element in the ranks of the Republican party. We seen how they started voting after the 60's and we know all about the "Southern strategy".
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:19 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 10,362,306 times
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Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Oh please! Are you credulous children being led astray by a bad man?
Like I said........ You have just validated my point!
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:23 AM
 
12,630 posts, read 7,638,308 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0618 View Post
Check your history about the jewish Involvement in the civil rights movement. We were big in support of black rights. You talk about angry white conservatives all thru this thread. Who has said they are even a conservative? You asume but do so in such a general way so you can hide behind your historical bias. You say i am making things up but that what you say is fact. Ok am i making this up... There are polictical leaders in the world who say the holicaust never happened and that all jews should be killed. That isreal and all its people should be pushed into the sea. That scares me way more than angry conservatives who are pieceful protesting as the tea party movement. By the way jews historically vote dem. I am happy to be in my peoples minority and vote conservative. But by no way am i a angry white man.
When you say "WE", is it inclusive of "YOU"? What have you done in the fight for civil rights? I only ask that because in this debate I never once said anything about Jewish people. However, what I did not is that I do not believe in absolutes. In other words, i do not believe that what is true for the whole is true of all its parts. Having a great "Team" (the whole) does not mean that each player on the team is a great player. Because you are jewish and Jewish people fought on the side and died with blacks does not mean that you are Jewish person who would have done the same. That is kind of like hearing all those whites who did not vote for Obama using the whites who did vote for Obama as demonstration that this is not a racist nation. You cannot get more back azzward than that.

I never claimed that any particular poster was a conservative. What I claimed is that the angriest group of people in America are white conservatives who feel they are "losing their country". This is the group that I, I, I, I, I, I......fear most, based upon the history of terrorism against African Americans in this nation. You fear the elements that oppressed your people and I will fear the elements that oppressed mine.
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:27 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,095 posts, read 5,634,901 times
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Quote:
They hang on to their "whiteness" as the thing that makes them superior to blacks...so they join with white conservatives against social programs and liberalism because many see welfare and entitlement with a black face. Why do you think that the US is the only majority white nation that does not have liberal or borderline socialist policies? Its because whites don't mind as much supporting other whites as they do the idea of supporting non whites, primarily black, who they see as lazy.
I'm not denying that there's a few who vote Republican for those reasons. But I don't think you completely understand the ideals of conservatism, either.

There are some of us who truly believe that limited government and a high level of personal freedom is the best system for ALL people. That an overgrown government actually reduces the amount of opportunity for everyone, regardless of race, sex, etc. The fiscal conservatives with truly good intentions really believe these things, and it has nothing to do with race. And there are minorities who buy into it too, once they get past the rhetoric that liberals put out there. The ideals of conservatism can be appealing to anyone. You don't have to agree with the ideals, but I get tired of hearing this stuff.

Last edited by michigan83; 04-28-2011 at 10:48 AM..
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:47 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,095 posts, read 5,634,901 times
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Quote:
Why is it ridiculous that I fear conservative elements in times of crisis and upheaval more than I do liberal elements?
Honestly... if you're saying that, as black person, you fear conservative radicals more, I can't really argue with you. I can't really put myself in your shoes. They could very well be more threatening to the average black person, especially since racists tend to gravitate towards the Republican party because they don't want to be in the party that "helps" minorities (debatable). I'd say that's true. Just like there are potheads who vote Democrat only because they want their favorite drug legalized. I don't think the Democratic party is thrilled to have those people as members either.

Looking objectively, though, both sides have radicals, kooks, and violent fringes.
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:05 PM
 
12,630 posts, read 7,638,308 times
Reputation: 4794
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
I'm not denying that there's a few who vote Republican for those reasons. But I don't think you completely understand the ideals of conservatism, either.

There are some of us who truly believe that limited government and a high level of personal freedom is the best system for ALL people. That an overgrown government actually reduces the amount of opportunity for everyone, regardless of race, sex, etc. The fiscal conservatives with truly good intentions really believe these things, and it has nothing to do with race. And there are minorities who buy into it too, once they get past the rhetoric that liberals put out there. The ideals of conservatism can be appealing to anyone. You don't have to agree with the ideals, but I get tired of hearing this stuff.
You are one of the most leveled headed people in this debate thus far. I like what you are saying and the way you are saying it . I concur with you about those elements who truly believe that limited government is the way to go and do not have ulterior racial motives for those beliefs. That is a factual statement.

I am going to have to give you props? I find myself in agreement with much of what you say. There are many truths because there are few absolutes. I personally view conservatism and liberalism as "tools", like a hammer and a screw driver. What tool you use depends on the job or situation of what needs fixing. I do not subcribe to the notion that big government is always best or that limited government is always best. It depends on the era and what is needed and the wisdom of the tactics and strategies. Its kind of like debt. There is debt taken for consumption and there is debt taken for investment. One cannot always say that debt is good or debt is bad....because it all depends on the situation.
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Old 04-28-2011, 12:05 PM
 
3,090 posts, read 2,916,225 times
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Hard to copy and quote on iphone while in car... What have you done for the civil rights movement or to fight racism against jews? For civil rights purposes i am 39 so my limited ability has been to hire hundreds of people over the last 20 yrs with at least 60% of them black and at least 10% more other minorities. I have worked in black neighborhoods including mt morris and flint. That was door to door and have had tons of face to face experience in the black community.
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