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Old 04-24-2011, 07:18 AM
 
Location: Ocqueoc, MI - Extreme N.E. Lower Peninsula
275 posts, read 394,839 times
Reputation: 276

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Indentured Servant. Between Beachmel's post and your response, I find yours to be the more offensive. Everything you offered is simply your opinion, yet you offer it up as a statement of fact. I've seen you do this repeatedly on these boards. Are you so confident of the intent of someone's post? Are you so confident of what is in their heart?

You make these statements, and then in a condescending tone tell me that I am unable to understand or am in denial because I'm a white man. If that's the case, then why even make the statements? I clearly have a genetic predisposition that would prevent me from understanding.

There are few things you could call me that I would find to be more offensive than "racist". You had better bring facts, and not just your personal perspective as a black man.
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Old 04-24-2011, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 10,362,306 times
Reputation: 19477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Whats sad is that there is a genetic link to everything genetic creatures do. There is a genetic link to talking, walking, going to the bathroom, fight or flight, thinking...etc. Your FYI was superflous at best.

Look....there is a long, long history of people attempting to link higher incidence of violence in the black community to genetics.....as opposed to other factors. There has also been a long, long history of people trying to link lower test scores in the black community to genetics as well. In truth, there has been a long, long history of people attempting to explain black socioeconomic inequality......on genetics.

That is the context of America whether some of you want to use context for understanding or not. America has a history of blaming black behavior and performance on genetics, whether it be sports or violence. Thus, the fact that you would chime in concerning a crime wave manifesting in the black community and introduce the genetic component to the debate....is ignorant if not racist. It feeds into the doctrine of a propensity of inferior or superior genetic traits to explain gaps in behavior and performance from sports, education to violence, between the races.

Whether your intent was racist or not.......the effect is that when one talks about genetics as a causation in the phenomenon dealing with a crime wave mainly manifesting in black or minority communities.....it perpetuates the doctrine of genetic black inferiority. Furthermore, denial and deception are also human traits. The fact that you say something does not mean that you are dealing in reality. People who are alcoholics often deny that they are. People who are walking skeletons often think they are "fat". In other words, people often don't see the reality of themselves.....especially when that reality is something "ugly" that would cause inner pain. That is were denial steps in.

Now.....I used melanin as a metaphor for "African Americans". The fact that you do not link melanin to to higher rates of violence does NOT exonerate you from the belief of a genetic RACIAL link to higher rates of violence in the black community.

Sadly, the reason you can not hear what others are trying to say to you, is this...you are the biggest racist in this thread. Can you not see that your constant attempts to find racism in all of the posts of others, is directly linked to YOUR racism? You seek to find racist comments in the posts of everyone else, in an attempt to justify your own overwhelming hatred of the white race. That's sad....but honest.
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Old 04-24-2011, 08:58 AM
 
12,630 posts, read 7,638,308 times
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I am talking EFFECT here. Not that it matters, but I have been received several rep points for that comment that I made already. The problem is that you all are not black and hence cannot see the world from our perspective. Say what you will but anytime someone injects genetics into a conversation about a crime, which is coming from the black community, then the EFFECT of such a suggestion is the perpetuation of a racist doctrine.

Look....because you are not bruised as a people, from years of oppression, you often don't respect our bruises. You cannot hug a person with bruised ribs in the way you can hug a person without bruises. You think that because there are no longer laws which crack our ribs that our ribs should be fine....any you don't care if they are not or that they are still being damaged from stealth attacks. You all think you are qualified to tell us when we should and should not hurt.....but how are you qualified to do that? As much as you all like to pretend, the past has had consquences on the present.

You all can say what you will. However, rest assured that I will ALWAYS call stuff like this out! You are not going to play that reverse pyschology BS game on me. I can google you up all the past and present attempts, some psuedo science, to argue black genetic inferiority, in regards to IQ, Violence, sports performance and the like. If you all want to stick your head in the sand and make believe reality is not what it is....thats your willfulll ignorance. I refuse to live in a world of ignorance and fear. You can call me what you want but any of you try to introduce genetics as an explanation for violence that is manifesting disproportionately in the black community......then I am going to jump all over you.....whether its your intent to be racist or not.......the implications are clear.
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Old 04-24-2011, 09:04 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 10,362,306 times
Reputation: 19477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
I am talking EFFECT here. Not that it matters, but I have been received several rep points for that comment that I made already. The problem is that you all are not black and hence cannot see the world from our perspective. Say what you will but anytime someone injects genetics into a conversation about a crime, which is coming from the black community, then the EFFECT of such a suggestion is the perpetuation of a racist doctrine.

Look....because you are not bruised as a people, from years of oppression, you often don't respect our bruises. You cannot hug a person with bruised ribs in the way you can hug a person without bruises. You think that because there are no longer laws which crack our ribs that our ribs should be fine....any you don't care if they are not or that they are still being damaged from stealth attacks. You all think you are qualified to tell us when we should and should not hurt.....but how are you qualified to do that? As much as you all like to pretend, the past has had consquences on the present.

You all can say what you will. However, rest assured that I will ALWAYS call stuff like this out! You are not going to play that reverse pyschology BS game on me. I can google you up all the past and present attempts, some psuedo science, to argue black genetic inferiority, in regards to IQ, Violence, sports performance and the like. If you all want to stick your head in the sand and make believe reality is not what it is....thats your willfulll ignorance. I refuse to live in a world of ignorance and fear. You can call me what you want but any of you try to introduce genetics as an explanation for violence that is manifesting disproportionately in the black community......then I am going to jump all over you.....whether its your intent to be racist or not.......the implications are clear.
Because of a mind clouded with rage, you take everything "personally". The genetic predisposition to violence occurs in every race, in every color, regardless of nationality. Those who remove themselves from areas which have a high incidence of violence, and marry into "gentler" families, in areas of low crime and violence, are able to "breed it down"....again, regardless of skin color. You refuse to see that, because your mind is so clouded with your selfishness, rage and hatred. Everything isn't about YOU....although clearly, you are quite comfortable making it so.

BTW...you DO live in a world of ignorance and fear and you refuse to leave that world. It is a hell of your own making.
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Old 04-24-2011, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Ocqueoc, MI - Extreme N.E. Lower Peninsula
275 posts, read 394,839 times
Reputation: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
The problem is that you all are not black and hence cannot see the world from our perspective.
OK...by that logic, you are not white, and cannot see the world from a white person's perspective. Yet, you make statements that clearly say, "I know what you meant to say by that, you racist." If white people have a genetic predisposition which prevents them from understanding you, then don't you also have one that would prevent you from understanding a white person?

If not, then you are deeming white people to be inferior in this regard. Could I not call you a racist, based solely on this one example?
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Old 04-24-2011, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 10,362,306 times
Reputation: 19477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Wojo View Post
OK...by that logic, you are not white, and cannot see the world from a white person's perspective. Yet, you make statements that clearly say, "I know what you meant to say by that, you racist." If white people have a genetic predisposition which prevents them from understanding you, then don't you also have one that would prevent you from understanding a white person?

If not, then you are deeming white people to be inferior in this regard. Could I not call you a racist, based solely on this one example?
Absolutely correct...does it not work both ways? Clearly, some people do not understand that many of us come from people who have been oppressed, yes, for centuries, but some will never understand that logic. When you choose to live in a bubble of hatred and self-pity, you can never understand that you are not alone...and never have been. Some people simply have chosen to step out of that bubble and live in the world with everyone else, learn what others have gone through. When you begin to do so, your pain seems much, much less severe..and in fact, become non-existent!
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Old 04-24-2011, 10:55 AM
 
3,090 posts, read 2,916,225 times
Reputation: 1375
Wow has my thread detoured. I am jewish and white. I Lived as a young child in a poor white trash area. A few miles from detroit in oak park. We had 1 black kid at our elementry school. We had lots of violence at school. It is not a color issue. It is more a poverty level issue. If most of the people in the area are renters and turnover is high, you will have high crime. The flint twp/ mt morris problems are due to the same reasons. It just so happens to be a black area. If you change the people there to all white but keep it as a all rental and poor area the results would be the same.
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Old 04-24-2011, 02:21 PM
 
12,630 posts, read 7,638,308 times
Reputation: 4794
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
Because of a mind clouded with rage, you take everything "personally". The genetic predisposition to violence occurs in every race, in every color, regardless of nationality. Those who remove themselves from areas which have a high incidence of violence, and marry into "gentler" families, in areas of low crime and violence, are able to "breed it down"....again, regardless of skin color. You refuse to see that, because your mind is so clouded with your selfishness, rage and hatred. Everything isn't about YOU....although clearly, you are quite comfortable making it so.

BTW...you DO live in a world of ignorance and fear and you refuse to leave that world. It is a hell of your own making.
Maybe there is a genetic link to this “rage” you say that I am guilty of. Hey, maybe it is the same kind of rage that is also linked to high rates of violent crime in the black community? Sorry, I am not full of rage and don’t know what I have said that is indicative of rage. Rather, I am simply casting aspersion upon the logical inferences of what you injected into a debate about crime.

Have you ever bought something from the store that was in a box disassembled with instructions for assembly? Well, if you never have, after you follow the instructions you should not have parts, screws and bolts left over if you put it together right. If you have parts, screws and bolts left over, they likely were not superfluous, rather, you simply did not put the thing together properly based upon the tools and pieces provided for that purpose.

You see, history and truth are like instructions to put together and or explain the reality of the present. Your construction or assembly leaves a lot of left over objects. I don’t leave out parts because I am not looking to build anything that is LESS THAN THE TRUTH. The fact of the matter is that you are not using all the pieces in your rhetoric either out of ignorance or deceit.

The truth that you are leaving out, which most people are very cognizant of, is that the rate of violent crime in the black community is much higher than in other communities. People might pretend to be color-blind all they want or to leave that out for fear of being perceived as a racist, but anyone who watches the news or knows crime statistics realize the racial differences in the rates of violent crime in this nation and the much higher incidence in the black community. I assumes all informed people realized this……including you.

To offer a genetic causation component to the violence when wide racial variance in rates of violent crime exists, such is offering or suggestion a genetic racial link to violent crime as well, by inference. The same is true in sports events such as sprinting, football, basketball, boxing or the like. If a particular race is consistently and disproportionately dominating certain sports, and one injects a genetic root to being able to perform as such high levels, they are logically inferring, by deduction, that there is a genetic racial trait that allows a particular race to dominate over others in certain sports.

Quote: “The genetic predisposition for violence occurs in every race”. That is what you said. Ah….but not all races have the same rates of violent crime. If the propensity is the same among all races, then it should not even enter into the debate about causation, given that the violence is disproportionately coming from the black community and most people who watch the news knows this. I mean, it’s like linking having two arms to high rates of violence. How many people with one or no arms do you know of that are committing murder? Bingo! My point is that if a genetic propensity exists among all races equally, yet, there is egregious racial inequality in the rates of a certain behavior, then its highly unlikely that the cause of the violence in linked to the gentic trait shared equally amoung all races! I would make absolutely no sense to bring up SHARED TRAITS, when races with the same predisposition manifest the behavior 7 times less than another race with the same genetic predisposition.


There is certainly not any scientific methodology in your reasoning. Again, the unstated fact in this thread is that most of this violence is coming from the black community. When one is trying to solve a problem scientifically or logically, you look to find what is DIFFERENT between those that manifest high rates of a certain behavior juxtaposed with those who do not. Hence, it makes absolutely no logical sense to focus on what the study groups have in common (genetic propensity for violence) rather than what the groups don’t have in common (like a history of racial oppression and racial degradation to the same degree). I submit to you an intelligent person that injects a genetic causations in adebate about violence, when the violence is disproportionally manifesting in a particular race, is inferring that there is a genetic difference between the race that is causing that race to demonstrate higher incidence of violence. I mean, it's elementary deduction. If A = B and B = C………then the logical inference is that A = C. Hence, the logical inference of what you say, whether by mistake or intent, is that there is a genetic racial link to violence.

You are either guilty of deceit or ignorance, willful or unintended.

Last edited by Indentured Servant; 04-24-2011 at 02:34 PM..
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Old 04-24-2011, 03:04 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 10,362,306 times
Reputation: 19477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Maybe there is a genetic link to this “rage” you say that I am guilty of. Hey, maybe it is the same kind of rage that is also linked to high rates of violent crime in the black community? Sorry, I am not full of rage and don’t know what I have said that is indicative of rage. Rather, I am simply casting aspersion upon the logical inferences of what you injected into a debate about crime.

Have you ever bought something from the store that was in a box disassembled with instructions for assembly? Well, if you never have, after you follow the instructions you should not have parts, screws and bolts left over if you put it together right. If you have parts, screws and bolts left over, they likely were not superfluous, rather, you simply did not put the thing together properly based upon the tools and pieces provided for that purpose.

You see, history and truth are like instructions to put together and or explain the reality of the present. Your construction or assembly leaves a lot of left over objects. I don’t leave out parts because I am not looking to build anything that is LESS THAN THE TRUTH. The fact of the matter is that you are not using all the pieces in your rhetoric either out of ignorance or deceit.

The truth that you are leaving out, which most people are very cognizant of, is that the rate of violent crime in the black community is much higher than in other communities. People might pretend to be color-blind all they want or to leave that out for fear of being perceived as a racist, but anyone who watches the news or knows crime statistics realize the racial differences in the rates of violent crime in this nation and the much higher incidence in the black community. I assumes all informed people realized this……including you.

To offer a genetic causation component to the violence when wide racial variance in rates of violent crime exists, such is offering or suggestion a genetic racial link to violent crime as well, by inference. The same is true in sports events such as sprinting, football, basketball, boxing or the like. If a particular race is consistently and disproportionately dominating certain sports, and one injects a genetic root to being able to perform as such high levels, they are logically inferring, by deduction, that there is a genetic racial trait that allows a particular race to dominate over others in certain sports.

Quote: “The genetic predisposition for violence occurs in every race”. That is what you said. Ah….but not all races have the same rates of violent crime. If the propensity is the same among all races, then it should not even enter into the debate about causation, given that the violence is disproportionately coming from the black community and most people who watch the news knows this. I mean, it’s like linking having two arms to high rates of violence. How many people with one or no arms do you know of that are committing murder? Bingo! My point is that if a genetic propensity exists among all races equally, yet, there is egregious racial inequality in the rates of a certain behavior, then its highly unlikely that the cause of the violence in linked to the gentic trait shared equally amoung all races! I would make absolutely no sense to bring up SHARED TRAITS, when races with the same predisposition manifest the behavior 7 times less than another race with the same genetic predisposition.


There is certainly not any scientific methodology in your reasoning. Again, the unstated fact in this thread is that most of this violence is coming from the black community. When one is trying to solve a problem scientifically or logically, you look to find what is DIFFERENT between those that manifest high rates of a certain behavior juxtaposed with those who do not. Hence, it makes absolutely no logical sense to focus on what the study groups have in common (genetic propensity for violence) rather than what the groups don’t have in common (like a history of racial oppression and racial degradation to the same degree). I submit to you an intelligent person that injects a genetic causations in adebate about violence, when the violence is disproportionally manifesting in a particular race, is inferring that there is a genetic difference between the race that is causing that race to demonstrate higher incidence of violence. I mean, it's elementary deduction. If A = B and B = C………then the logical inference is that A = C. Hence, the logical inference of what you say, whether by mistake or intent, is that there is a genetic racial link to violence.

You are either guilty of deceit or ignorance, willful or unintended.
Hmmmm let's see, there's really no way of coming out of this unscathed, is there....um, either I'm willfully or unintentionally deceitful,or I'm willfully or unintentionally ignorant...at least according to you. Wow, you do have your own "special" way of thinking. Actually, I am so incredibly bored with these exchanges with you. For the most part, I and many others are simply "color blind"...we see the human condition as just that...injustice is injustice, regardless of the color of a person's skin, with the exception of course to simple observations made about various sports and the exceptional skill of certain races in them. Unfortunately for you, you perceive anything and everything that was ever done to blacks as far more horrific than anything done to those with different skin colors. Good grief, how old ARE you?

I'm done...there comes a time where you simply have to acknowledge that there is simply no "getting through" to some people...blah, blah, blah, ad nauseum. Enjoy your pity party...you are the host and the guest of honor, but that's as it should be I.S., because it's all about you.
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Old 04-24-2011, 03:31 PM
 
12,630 posts, read 7,638,308 times
Reputation: 4794
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
Hmmmm let's see, there's really no way of coming out of this unscathed, is there....um, either I'm willfully or unintentionally deceitful,or I'm willfully or unintentionally ignorant...at least according to you. Wow, you do have your own "special" way of thinking. Actually, I am so incredibly bored with these exchanges with you. For the most part, I and many others are simply "color blind"...we see the human condition as just that...injustice is injustice, regardless of the color of a person's skin, with the exception of course to simple observations made about various sports and the exceptional skill of certain races in them. Unfortunately for you, you perceive anything and everything that was ever done to blacks as far more horrific than anything done to those with different skin colors. Good grief, how old ARE you?

I'm done...there comes a time where you simply have to acknowledge that there is simply no "getting through" to some people...blah, blah, blah, ad nauseum. Enjoy your pity party...you are the host and the guest of honor, but that's as it should be I.S., because it's all about you.
Oh you got through loud and clear. The problem is that some of you don't really even know what racism really is. If you don't know what it is then you cannot know if you are guilty of it or not....can you? Seeing a persons color or noticing a persons color or differences IS NOT RACISM or RACIST. Observations are not where racism is demonstrated. Racism is demonstrated in the EXPLANATION. Its HUMAN to observe differences and to note things like a higher propensity of one race to behave or perform a certain way. Its when people try to explain that it reveals racism.

So you were clear in communicating that you are concerned with only the human condition. However, the truth is that you have behaviors like murder manifesting 7 times more among black humans than white humans in America. Its not racist to note that truth. What's racist is when one infers that there is a genetic link to this violence, which is happening 7 times more in blacks than whites, which infers a racial genetic trait to the violence.

Look....I have asked people to explain the # one reason why people are poor in America. Many people told me laziness and personal irresponsibility. Now....that was not a racial question....but simply a question of why they believed that HUMANS in America are poor. Then I ask then a racial question. I ask them to map their explanation to the reality of black poverty being 3 times the rate of whites and does their reasoning not infer that they believe that blacks are lazier and more irresponsible than whites? They would not come right out and admit the logical inference of their beliefs. It does not matter that they may see themselves as color blind. If they believe that laziness and irresponsiblility is the primary cause of poverty, then reconciling that theory with the reality of a much higher black poverty rate infers that blacks are lazier and more irresponsible......especially when these same people would dismiss the racism and oppression link to black poverty.

Hey.....we live in a world of human deception and avoidance. Hence, people are not DUMB enough to say something whose face value would reveal that they manifest a socially stigmatized belief. Therefore, one has to use deducation to get past all the stealth avoidance of saying something that directly points them out as having a certain racial beliefs.
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