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Old 04-26-2011, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 10,357,769 times
Reputation: 19477

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
Many people confuse confidence with arrogance. If what I say does not apply to you...then simply move on. However, because it does not apply to you does not mean its not the case for another. Are you so arrogant that you think you can vouch for all white people?




lol...ok. That would certainly make it easy to discredit me if I believed such......would it not? Let me ask you this. What percentage of whites being racist does it require to make legitimate claims about white racism? So if 100% of whites are not racist.....everything I say is thus debunked? Makes sense to me.

You know......I often listen to Randi Rhodes, the Radio Personality on the progressive network. She is a white women and likely Jewish, I think. I listen to her talk about how much racism there is towards Obama. In fact, almost every day I hear her talk about racism from the white right directed at Obama. Its seems like its ok for white folks to talk about whites being racist......but not black folks.

If you meet me you would think I am one of the nicest coolest people , which is true. I does not matter what race you are, most people like me. However, that is because we never get into discussions about race. If we did, they probably would not like me, just like you all seem not to. But what would be different about me? History is what it is and its impact is what it is. Thus, why get uncomfortable with me because I will tell you the present is what it is because the past was what it was? Why should someone look at me differently just because I speak the truth and why would I dislike them because of that truth, just because they are white? I am a dynamic individual and can recognize truths about the whole and realize that what is true for the whole cannot be assumed true for all parts of the whole. I also know that I cannot assume that what is true for a part of the whole is thus true for the whole. Life is rarely so absolute and simple......yet, many of you expect that I think like a simpleton....believing in absolutes....lol....sorry to dissapoint.



Well....that is truly sad.....but not unexpected.
Some of us would spot your veiled animosity a mile away. Some people see other's hearts, superficiality doesn't cut it.
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Old 04-27-2011, 05:28 AM
 
12,578 posts, read 7,626,701 times
Reputation: 4777
Quote:
Originally Posted by mike0618 View Post
I am done responding to him too. I guess every black person i kicked out of the movies was because i was racist... Not a drunk idiot like the white guys i threw out. Thank you for showing me the light.
So what you are infering is that if one white person is not racist then it disproves that any white people are racist. If one is not a white racist and know that white racism exists, then are you not essentially covering up for those whites who are racist when you try to disprove white racism by noting that YOU are not racist? If that is the case then I can disprove or caste doubt upon the claim of black out of wedlock births by the fact that all my children were born after I got married. Furthermore, the fact that 100% of blacks do not have children born out of wedlock means also that black out of wedlock births is not a problem. If I presented such flawed logic and reasoning I would be RIGHTLY viewed as disengenuous....if not stupid. Yet, you all constantly present such flawed reasoning when you try to use the fact that 100% of whites are not racist to cover up for the problem of the existance of white racism. Its sad and pathetic and you all don't realize how such reasoning really exposes you and destroys your intellectual credibility, if not moral.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:01 AM
 
Location: Ocqueoc, MI - Extreme N.E. Lower Peninsula
275 posts, read 394,685 times
Reputation: 276
I know that I said I wouldn't respond. I have serious doubts that it will serve any purpose. Oh, well...here goes...

Indentured Servant. I think that there are three little words that may help you to regain some credibility around here. "In my opinion..." Here are three more. "I think that..." How about "My thoughts are..." or even "Here's my take..."

This is the point I was attempting to make in my last "final" response. It is my opinion that you state your opinion as though it is fact. That is what I find most offensive about your posts. That is the arrogance to which I was referring.

Is humility not an admirable trait? Do you believe that being humble is counter intuitive to standing up for what you believe?
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:31 AM
 
12,578 posts, read 7,626,701 times
Reputation: 4777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Wojo View Post
I know that I said I wouldn't respond. I have serious doubts that it will serve any purpose. Oh, well...here goes...

Indentured Servant. I think that there are three little words that may help you to regain some credibility around here. "In my opinion..." Here are three more. "I think that..." How about "My thoughts are..." or even "Here's my take..."

This is the point I was attempting to make in my last "final" response. It is my opinion that you state your opinion as though it is fact. That is what I find most offensive about your posts. That is the arrogance to which I was referring.

Is humility not an admirable trait? Do you believe that being humble is counter intuitive to standing up for what you believe?

I do state my opinion as FACT because it IS Fact. What about the racial history of America that I use is a lie or just my opinion? What is unfactual about the existance of current white racism? Its not my opinion that blacks were oppressed by white society in this nation and its not my opinion that white racism still exists. The PROBLEM is that peolple like you have twisted my words and created a straw man that I am saying that ALL people are a certain way. Now......how stupid could anyone be to believe that something like racism could apply ubiquitously to all? Do you believe that because I am black I am that stupid enough not to know that not all whites are racist and NEVER has there been an era where that was true?

Fact: This nation has a long history of white racism against blacks. Fact: White racism still exists today. Fact: All actions create reactions. Fact: White racism has created a socioeconomic and physchologic reaction in blacks: Fact: Just because there are many whites who are NOT racist does not mean that there are not MANY whites who are racist. Fact: Pointing out that one is not a racist does not mean that white racism is not a problem in and for others.

I am not trying to be in good standing with anything but the truth....and hence, if that is the case then the only people who I will not be in good credible standing with are those people averse to truth. Why? The truth hurts and noone wants to be hurt!


Someone once had an OPINION that the world was flat, while others had an Opinion that the world was round. Opinion and TRUTH are not mutually exclusive. Also, a logically reasoned opinion is superior to a poorly reasoned dissent.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:45 AM
 
Location: Western Washington
8,004 posts, read 10,357,769 times
Reputation: 19477
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
So what you are infering is that if one white person is not racist then it disproves that any white people are racist. If one is not a white racist and know that white racism exists, then are you not essentially covering up for those whites who are racist when you try to disprove white racism by noting that YOU are not racist? If that is the case then I can disprove or caste doubt upon the claim of black out of wedlock births by the fact that all my children were born after I got married. Furthermore, the fact that 100% of blacks do not have children born out of wedlock means also that black out of wedlock births is not a problem. If I presented such flawed logic and reasoning I would be RIGHTLY viewed as disengenuous....if not stupid. Yet, you all constantly present such flawed reasoning when you try to use the fact that 100% of whites are not racist to cover up for the problem of the existance of white racism. Its sad and pathetic and you all don't realize how such reasoning really exposes you and destroys your intellectual credibility, if not moral.
No rage in you? Hmmm just poor reading comprehension? Just exactly what in the hell are you arguing here?! Talk about sad and pathetic! What are you trying to argue? My God you sound like some spoiled, petulant teenage kid with these arguments. How incredibly ridiculous.

Okay...let's turn your words around a bit here, make them a bit more straight forward. Did you just say, We ALL are trying to cover up the problem of racism, by saying that not ALL (100%) whites are racist!? Yes, I guess you would say that, wouldn't you? I don't believe there is one, single poster here who would say there is no such thing as problem with racism in this country. In fact, I believe that most HAVE said that there IS a problem with racism. Many of us "white" have been victimized by racism as well...including venom thrown at us by blacks, only because of OUR skin color!

You can NOT change the way some people think. All you can do is not let their thinking affect your life! You can not control everyone, just because they are not exactly what or who you want them to be. LOL I don't even know what your problem is. Are you not the one who said that we'd probably really like you, if we met you in person? Did you not say that most people DO really like you, when they meet you face to face? Then what's you're problem?

Last edited by beachmel; 04-27-2011 at 08:11 AM..
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:47 AM
 
Location: Ocqueoc, MI - Extreme N.E. Lower Peninsula
275 posts, read 394,685 times
Reputation: 276
You didn't answer my questions.
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Old 04-27-2011, 07:49 AM
 
1 posts, read 985 times
Reputation: 10
I saw this thread while googling crime in Flint. I'm not even going to attempt to respond to a lot of the stuff said in this thread as I think other posters have just about covered it.

Anyway, I graduate college this week from a Flint university. I've lived on the south side of Flint my entire life (I'm 22, btw) around the Fenton rd./Atherton area. I have no criminal past, no ties of any sort to that community, same goes for my parents who I live with. Aside from having a car stolen out front of our house 10 years ago, and a shed break-in where our mower and weedwacker were stolen, we have not been victims of any crime.

About a year and a half ago, I started reading mlive pretty much on a daily basis. I wanted to see where the majority of the crime is occurring--partly to know if certain things are happening around me, and partly to have the security in knowing that it's not happening near us. What I've found in reading these articles and making use of court records (available to any one)/the department of corrections web site are three things: 1. these crimes (robberies, break-ins, murders, assaults etc.) are primarily occurring in the west, north and east sides. 2. the victims of these crimes (particularly the murders) tend to have criminal pasts themselves. Whether that's just marijuana possession or something else minor, it's apparent that they've been dabbling in something that is dangerous (play with fire, you're gonna get burned). 3. the victims of these crimes tend to associate with people who have no ambition in life but to commit crimes and collect as much as possible from the government.

That's led me to a few conclusions. 1. If you live in a fairly decent area (re: some parts of the south side and various other areas in Flint) and don't associate with these people, you're going to be fine. Again, don't play with fire or you might get burned. 2. If you have ambition and continue to be a hard working citizen, you're also going to be fine. The chances of getting murdered or assaulted or even robbed when you're perfectly innocent are slim to none. Yes, it has happened (such as in the case of the elderly woman who was murdered last year) but it is few and far between.

There are still a lot of good people left in Flint. Many people who work for the universities downtown live around that area or in other parts of Flint. They choose to do so because it is cheap and convenient. This is good for the city.

That having been said, I am planning on getting my parents out of Flint as soon as possible. It's not so much that I am in fear for their lives, but rather that they need a house that has less stairs since they both have arthritis. At this point, it just makes sense to buy a nice ranch in Grand Blanc than to buy another house in Flint. However, we can't get a mortgage right now (things need to be worked out first) so we are stuck in Flint for at least the next year. My advice to others in our situation (wanting to leave but can't quite) is to keep your eyes open, read the news, listen to the police scanner, get home insurance, install extra lights on your property, secure your shed (we learned that the hard way and now have it double-locked) look out for the neighbors you know you can trust, and most of all, DO NOT ASSOCIATE WITH THE THUGS. Even on the south side, there are people who you can tell are up to no good. They're the ones who sit around or walk around the street all day long, who constantly seem to be high or drunk, who won't make any effort to get a job, and who tend to get evicted after a few months. Steer clear of these people and you'll generally be alright.
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:29 AM
 
12,578 posts, read 7,626,701 times
Reputation: 4777
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmel View Post
No rage in you? Hmmm just poor reading comprehension? Just exactly what in the hell are you arguing here?! Talk about sad and pathetic! What are you trying to argue? My God you sound like some spoiled, petulant teenage kid with these arguments. How incredibly ridiculous.

Okay...let's turn your words around a bit here, make them a bit more straight forward. Did you just say, We ALL are trying to cover up the problem of racism, by saying that not ALL (100%) whites are racist!? Yes, I guess you would say that, wouldn't you? I don't believe there is one, single poster here who would say there is no such thing as problem with racism in this country. In fact, I believe that most HAVE said that there IS a problem with racism. Many of us "white" have been victimized by racism as well...including venom thrown at us by blacks, only because of OUR skin color!

You can NOT change the way some people think. All you can do is not let their thinking affect your life! You can not control everyone, just because they are not exactly what or who you want them to be. LOL I don't even know what your problem is. Are you not the one who said that we'd probably really like you, if we met you in person? Did you not say that most people DO really like you, when they meet you face to face? Then what's you're problem?
If there is a problem with racism in this country and all actions manifest reactions, then there is no basis for dissent to the proposition that blacks have been negatively impacted by this racism. I mentioned early in this topic that the violence was correlated with poverty and unemployment. Then others chimed in saying that there are many poor unemployed people who don't commit crimes. However, since most the crime in manifesting in black areas that are poor and have high unemployment and not similar white areas of poor unemployed whites....then what is the difference between poor unemployed whites and poor unemployed blacks other than genetics and the history of being an oppressed race of people in this nation? Hence, its logical to conclude that since every action creates a reaction that white racism, if not genetics, created the reaction on black culture that manifest out these higher propensities for violence.

You see......its not just about aknowleging the existance of white racism....but also the IMPACT of its existance. Its not benign. The flaw is that people like you are not aknowledging the damage done by white racism. You talk about it as if it is a benign lump, when in truth it has been a socioeconomic cancer upon blacks.
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:36 AM
 
Location: Ocqueoc, MI - Extreme N.E. Lower Peninsula
275 posts, read 394,685 times
Reputation: 276
Quote:
Originally Posted by Indentured Servant View Post
I do state my opinion as FACT because it IS Fact.
Again, I am guilty of being unclear.

I do not dispute the FACTS of racial inequality and racism. They are well documented, and readily visible. These, however, are not facts. They are your opinion.

"If you meet me you would think I am one of the nicest coolest people , which is true." Opinion, not fact.

"No....what you and people like you are experiencing is what is called "Insecurity"." Opinion, not fact.

"I am one of the most laid back peope you will find." Opinion, not fact.

I know that these all seem petty, and I would likely agree. But, this one. This is the assertion that got my hackles up from the start.

"The problem is that you all are not black and hence cannot see the world from our perspective."

I don't dispute the statement taken by itself, but I am offended nonetheless. In the context of your post, it presupposes that my inherent inability to have your same degree of perspective supersedes my capacity for empathy for someone being subjected to racism and my ability for understanding of the problem on a societal level.

I will not tell you that I have never had a racist thought. I was raised by a long line of racists, and I have had to battle that legacy within myself for years. I've done my absolute best to not continue that legacy with my children. I have very strong feelings about this that I won't go into further with you. But, taken from my perspective, would you be willing to try to understand why I would find your assertion, in the context in which it was offered, to be insulting?
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Old 04-27-2011, 08:55 AM
 
12,578 posts, read 7,626,701 times
Reputation: 4777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave Wojo View Post
Again, I am guilty of being unclear.

I do not dispute the FACTS of racial inequality and racism. They are well documented, and readily visible. These, however, are not facts. They are your opinion.

"If you meet me you would think I am one of the nicest coolest people , which is true." Opinion, not fact.

"No....what you and people like you are experiencing is what is called "Insecurity"." Opinion, not fact.

"I am one of the most laid back peope you will find." Opinion, not fact.

I know that these all seem petty, and I would likely agree. But, this one. This is the assertion that got my hackles up from the start.

"The problem is that you all are not black and hence cannot see the world from our perspective."

I don't dispute the statement taken by itself, but I am offended nonetheless. In the context of your post, it presupposes that my inherent inability to have your same degree of perspective supersedes my capacity for empathy for someone being subjected to racism and my ability for understanding of the problem on a societal level.

I will not tell you that I have never had a racist thought. I was raised by a long line of racists, and I have had to battle that legacy within myself for years. I've done my absolute best to not continue that legacy with my children. I have very strong feelings about this that I won't go into further with you. But, taken from my perspective, would you be willing to try to understand why I would find your assertion, in the context in which it was offered, to be insulting?
Well....yes those things are my opinion, but do not form the foundation of my argument. However, again, just because it is my opinion does not mean that its not true. However, my thesis was in no way based upon these OPINIONS....but rather...the FACTS.
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