[Siberia]

We already know that Michigan politics refuse to make the difficult yet necessary MAJOR changes to save itself long term financial collapse, we can only hope that a future President elected in 2008 forces Michigan to make real changes to solve a long term crisis that will brutalize parts of the state for decades if left unchecked. Time for the Federal Government to declare Michigan a "Disaster State"...incapable of saving itself...

FOXNews.com - Transcript: Newt Gingrich on 'FOX News Sunday' - FOX News Sunday | Chris Wallace

Newt Gingrich Quote:

"But by the way, while you're doing that, if you don't challenge the union and the education bureaucracy, and you don't challenge the UAW, you are not going to save Michigan."

Newt Gingrich Quote:

"Michigan has lost more jobs than any state in the United States except the impact of Katrina on Louisiana. And nobody stops and says, "What is the systemic reason for this collapse?""


Newt Gingrich Quote:

"I do think a president has an obligation to say to the country, "You can't compete with China and India if your education system is failing," and that has to be solved locally."

[tuebor]

I was an independent for many years. Newt Gingrich is the man who made me a born-again Democrat. The government shut-down that he engineered made it clear to me that this current leadership of the GOP has nothing but contempt for basic principles of good governance. We saw the tragic effects of this attitude during the Katrina disaster (FEMA worked fine under Clinton!).

The "systematic reason" for Michigan's woes is neoliberalism (this is not new left-wing politics--anyone reading this who is unsure what this term means should look up "neoliberalism" on Wikipedia for a short definition). For three decades we've been undercutting the middle class and poor in favor of the rich, and undermining labor in favor of global capital. Multi-national corporations can freely move capital from one nation to another, and shop around for the cheapest labor and the laxest environmental regulations, but workers in many countries--and even in many US states--cannot freely organize, and cannot effectively organize across national boundaries.

For a brief period after WWII, there was a cooperative consensus among gov't, labor, and business in the US. Big labor purged itself of Communists and other radicals, and in exchange it got decent wages, working conditions, and partial recognition of its right to organize. The gap between the rich and the poor narrowed. For a while, a single working person's wages could support a family, get a mortgage, and buy a car. But Gingrich and his ilk helped dismantle that social contract.

A lot of people on this forum parrot the right-wing line that scapegoats the unions and teachers. While they are not blameless, unions and teachers are not the ones who are systematically rolling back the New Deal and taking us back to the policies of the Gilded Age--policies which made government the tool of the super-rich and helped lead us into the Great Depression. Michigan's unions are resisting the race to the bottom that the people Gingrich works for have set up, and for this the unions get trashed by people who cannot or will not see the bigger picture.

I hope the moderate Republicans take back their party from the reactionary extremists who've hijacked it. I'd gladly vote for Chuck Hagel instead of H. Clinton.

[Mommyofboys]

Originally Posted by Siberia

Newt Gingrich Quote:

"But by the way, while you're doing that, if you don't challenge the union and the education bureaucracy, and you don't challenge the UAW, you are not going to save Michigan."

This way of thinking is frightening to me. This is just another instance of how to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Unions are there to protect the rights of the workers. My ENTIRE family (on both my husbands family and mine) belong to unions. I think Newt Gingrich's narrow minded thinking would do more harm to Michigan than good.

[scottmi]

Newt is NEVER gonna win. You'll be throwing your vote away if you vote for him.

[TurboState]

Newt is a fool, that guy would shred whats left of our constitution after GW gets out.. If you thought Bush was a bad president, he's got nothing on Newt, we'd be finished for sure.

[jumpygh]

Originally Posted by Mommyofboys

This way of thinking is frightening to me. This is just another instance of how to make the rich richer and the poor poorer. Unions are there to protect the rights of the workers. My ENTIRE family (on both my husbands family and mine) belong to unions. I think Newt Gingrich's narrow minded thinking would do more harm to Michigan than good.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the unions aren't protecting squat. Automotive jobs are being moved to the southern states and even Mexico because union wages are too high. The Big Three are all in danger of bankruptcy because of the unions. Great job unions!

Even in Michigan unions are less popular than ever. A majority of the state's citizens want Michigan to be a right-to-work state! Think about how amazing that is. Unions are antiquated dinosaurs. I can't wait until the unions are gone.

Most Michiganders against forced unionism (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070720/OPINION01/707200316/1008 - broken link)

[Mommyofboys]

Originally Posted by jumpygh

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the unions aren't protecting squat. Automotive jobs are being moved to the southern states and even Mexico because union wages are too high. The Big Three are all in danger of bankruptcy because of the unions. Great job unions!

Even in Michigan unions are less popular than ever. A majority of the state's citizens want Michigan to be a right-to-work state! Think about how amazing that is. Unions are antiquated dinosaurs. I can't wait until the unions are gone.

Most Michiganders against forced unionism (http://www.detnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070720/OPINION01/707200316/1008 - broken link)

Seriously? I don't think it's the union workers with their so called "high wages" that is what's hurting the auto industry. Actually their wages are pretty much the norm for the area. Actually construction workers probably make more an hour than a UAW worker (I have both in my family so I can compare). But what about the people in the corporate offices who are making MILLIONS a year working for the same poor auto industry? Why not cut their pay or lay them off? They are obviously not doing their job or else we wouldn't be having this problem. Not having unions would be a disaster. Especially for SE Michigan. A right to work state would in fact create more jobs and would look GREAT on paper.......BUT.......they are not competitive wages. A company could then hire 2 workers for the price of one, which would be GREAT for business, they are saving money. But you can't live on $10 an hour. I think their pay is very fair considering the cost of living (taxes, AUTO INSURANCE, gas, etc...)! So to blame unions for the auto disaster is just plain ridiculuos in my opinion. Michigan always gets devastated when there is a republican in office. All I can do is hope there will be big change in the way this country is run in '09.

[jumpygh]

Originally Posted by Mommyofboys

Seriously? I don't think it's the union workers with their so called "high wages" that is what's hurting the auto industry. Actually their wages are pretty much the norm for the area. Actually construction workers probably make more an hour than a UAW worker (I have both in my family so I can compare). But what about the people in the corporate offices who are making MILLIONS a year working for the same poor auto industry? Why not cut their pay or lay them off? They are obviously not doing their job or else we wouldn't be having this problem. Not having unions would be a disaster. Especially for SE Michigan. A right to work state would in fact create more jobs and would look GREAT on paper.......BUT.......they are not competitive wages. A company could then hire 2 workers for the price of one, which would be GREAT for business, they are saving money. But you can't live on $10 an hour. I think their pay is very fair considering the cost of living (taxes, AUTO INSURANCE, gas, etc...)! So to blame unions for the auto disaster is just plain ridiculuos in my opinion. Michigan always gets devastated when there is a republican in office. All I can do is hope there will be big change in the way this country is run in '09.

Big Three line workers make $30 more an hour in wages and benefits than their rivals. That is the problem. Have you been following the Big Three labor negotiations? Even the union recognizes that their workers are paid too much. The choices are: accept lower wages or force the Big Three out of business and accept no wages and no jobs.

If you're jealous of what executives make, then why don't you become one? If their jobs are so easy, why don't you go for the good money? The truth is, execs are paid so much because of supply and demand--they have skills that are in high demand, yet there are few people capable of running a Fortune 500 company.

In contrast, union jobs skirt the laws of supply and demand. The companies must pay union wages or else face a strike. Without the threat of a strike, autoworker wages would be much lower because these are essentially jobs that anyone can do, hence there is a huge supply of labor.

By the way, there is DEMOCRAT in office. Her name is Granholm.

[Mommyofboys]

Originally Posted by jumpygh

Big Three line workers make $30 more an hour in wages and benefits than their rivals. That is the problem. Have you been following the Big Three labor negotiations? Even the union recognizes that their workers are paid too much. The choices are: accept lower wages or force the Big Three out of business and accept no wages and no jobs.

If you're jealous of what union workers make, then why don't you become one? If their jobs are so easy, why didn't you go for the good money?

Auto workers work a lot of overtime. That is why they make so much. If they are willing to put in the hours then they should be paid accordingly. I just don't understand why you would blame the workers. They are just trying to make a decent living. I'm sorry, but NO ONE is worth millions. The Big Three will never go out of business. And did you know, that the The Big Three jobs you mentioned left the state are being offered to the employees who presently work in Michigan? They are even offering relocation expenses. Some of the wages are even higher than here so what you said doesn't even make any sense (FYI...wages tend to adjust depending on the cost of living in that area).

If you look at the average cost of a home in Michigan + the average salary, they don't add up. It's like that all over the country. Inflation is horrible and unless you make decent money your gonna drowned in debt. It's funny how all that works. They expect you pay more for everything but want to pay you less. How will that ever work? It's not just that way with auto works but with Teachers, Police, etc. Workers need unions. Is it just the UAW you have a problem with or is it all unions in general? Teachers? Firefighters? Police? Construction? Because it sounds more like your beef isn't just with the auto unions but unions as a whole.

Granholm can't control the entire country. As for the UAW, until the cost of living equals out and people start buying cars again (ya know, the little people who don't make 6 figures who are also the majority of the country) it's just gonna be like this like it was in the 80's under Regan. There is NO way another republican will take office again.

[bryan61]

Im sorry, I thoguht the Presidential pen that signed NAFTA was in the hand of one William Jefferson Clinton. It was the democrats we sent to washington to protect our jobs that let the rest of congress carve up the auto worker.

they lied, as all politicains do, both sides of the aisle