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Old 05-12-2011, 06:43 PM
Location: Metro Detroit Area, Michigan
1,107 posts, read 2,766,468 times
Reputation: 533


Originally Posted by Tex?Il? View Post
You're right from old pictures I've seen, and all the history I have learned about Detroit. It is very true that up until 1970 Detroit was very "Chicagoesque"

But I am afraid you have proven my point. Among cities regarded as "world class" in the 21t century, none of them have quite an extensive area of deindustrialized, half abandoned, crime infested areas as large swaths of the south and west side of Chicago. Again, no few tourists attractions are located in areas, where one have to see these areas. LA for example has infamous areas like South Central, Watts, Compton down the port, but although that area has lots of violent crime, it looks completely intact. It looks like a 100% lived in working class neighborhood of the midwest.

The bad areas of Chicagoland in every way look like Detroit proper. This sets Chicago apart from San Fran or Boston, and honestly almost none of New York has quite the level of vacant lots where there used to be factories, houses. You can see this on google earth.

On the flipside, despite the condition of the city of Detroit, not other city that comes that close to having those level of problems have areas as amenity filled, and economically vibrant as Oakland County or Ann Arbor. Is it a problem that all the economic vitality, wealth and beautiful areas are largely in the suburbs, yet, but the fact is, is that they are there nonetheless, within 40 miles of downtown Detroit.

So my point is that if you compared the downtowand and urban core between Chicago and Detroit, there is absolutely no comparison.

However if you compare the wider metropolitan area, then the differences between the two narrow. The wealth, vitality, and amenities are distributed around more unevenly.

Personally while I love a healthy, walkable, transit-oriented downtown, I personally prefer, lively, walkable, amenity filled urban-suburbs.

If I can live in area where I can walk to bars, restaurants, shopping, museums, etc. and go out with eligible ladies that are not dominated by skyscrapers, high rises, and loud subways/Elevated trains, but rather small town/small city looking main streets with parks with natural woods instead of artificially planted areas I prefer that. Which I why I think Southeast is pretty cool. I wish downtown Detroit really became a shining city again, but I would still prefere Royal Oak, Birmingham, Dearborn, or Ann Arbor to actually live in.

Its also why I think LA is the most amazing city in the world. I don't care so much if the downtown is underwhelming for a city its size as long as the whole county has a whole of small suburban cities that have tons of fascinating things to see and do. Again, Chicagoland is kind of low on things to do outside the urban core for a metro area its size.
The stuff in bold Chicago metro has from downtown Naperville to Evanston. Elgin seemed nice and Aurora is a good town. All can be compared to the ones that are in bold.
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Old 05-12-2011, 07:52 PM
5,845 posts, read 11,150,486 times
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Originally Posted by Jwo85 View Post
The stuff in bold Chicago metro has from downtown Naperville to Evanston. Elgin seemed nice and Aurora is a good town. All can be compared to the ones that are in bold.
True . . .

Although its hard to beat Ann Arbor, while Evanston has a lot of similarities to Ann Arbor, there really isn't anything quite like U of M. Northwestern and University of Chicago are probably prestigious they are not as big. Madison, WI is the closest thing to it. That is two hours away.

There are definitely towns that are built like Royal Oak in Chicagoland, and downtown Naperville is similar to downtown Royal Oak. Yet, Royal Oak, when I was there, seemed to have A LOT more 20-somethings/early 30-somethings than Naperville, or Oak Park/Forest Park. Because here they overwhelmingly head to the north side neighborhoods to live. Elgin and Aurora are actually similar to Pontiac plus Auburn Hills, except maybe that Elgin and Aurora downtown are a little more ahead in revitalization.

The point I was making was that when comparing combined metro areas, The two regions are MUCH narrower in terms of what they have to offer in terms of amenities, than if you are comparing urban core to urban core, which in that case there is no comparison.
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Old 05-15-2011, 09:13 AM
Location: Michigan
51 posts, read 70,376 times
Reputation: 32
I guess I am not seeing it gettingt better... I know small business owners having trouble finding work to do, competition is high too many all bidding on the little work going on. Look at the occupancy of most of the office buidlings they are maybe 30% full for most of them in the Metro Detroit area there are some with more but that is hit and miss. Also of vacant industial sites a lot of for lease / sale signs. Older building have been vacant for a long time and some are even torned down and now just vacant land nothing there.

The jobs that are open are mostly lower paying take a look at Michigan Talent Bank 70% of the jobs pay maybe 12.00 an hour. Then look at the jobs opening at the Auto Plants now that they have a 2 tier pay system they get 14.00 to start half of what their fellow workers are making and how can you cover the monthly bills on thatunless you are living with family and friends and don't have to cover the full housing costs. Then add the gas prices 4.00 a gallon is okay but yet you hear that the price is going down and then it jumps uyp to 4.19 a gallon. They think by summer it will be down 50 cents more...I just don't see that.

As for employers they seem to take advantage of these tough times. I have had 4 jobs in the last 3 years now. Each have said they offer benefots but once you get the 90 days in you learn that they don't truly offer what they say they do. One company went thru 10 employees in that time all because the medical coverage is non existent, it is not agroup plan but individual and if you have a pre existing condition you have to cover a high deductible 2.5K for office visits and another 2.5K for prescriptions each year before you get to use the insurance which I have never paid that much even without insurance. Yet they know this but don't tell you till they have you there thinking you will stay because jobs are hard to get. Another told me I would get a raise after 90 days and I started off low thinking I would make it up after showing them my skills well 90 days came and went nothing 6 months nothing I approached them ask about a raise and they look at me like I was asking for thing they never agree to the same with any kind of paid time off (vacation). They told me if I needed any time off without pay just to give advance notioce and won't be an isse yet when I did I was told I can't have that day off and gave me some excuse that they had some work in a school over that holiday yet schools today won't have anyone there because of the labor cost so they lied. Again they thiunk you won't leave and when I asked about the riase isue they told me I should be happy I have the job and that they had 3 people looking for my job like I would not find another job. I did and moved on. It is sad you have skills and yet they are thinking they will get you in tyhe door and you will stick with them because of the job market... It is not looking better maybe on the surface but walk into a couple of office buildings and see all the empty space. And yet they are still building new office buildings and they have no one moving in. At least a year or two back it was going new buildings popping up in Plymouth etc. And yet there is all kinds of office space avaiable.

And now with even more foreclosures going one it has return to start turning around... And they all seem to want to lowest bid and some are taking it and trying to get the job done on time but losing $$$ just to have some work... Labor being the only cost they can cut back on. material is what it is...

I don't see it getting better yet... It will be slow to...

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Old 05-15-2011, 09:17 AM
47,531 posts, read 62,248,200 times
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A business friendly governor over one that isn't can make a whole lot of difference in a very short time.
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Old 05-15-2011, 09:19 AM
47,531 posts, read 62,248,200 times
Reputation: 22306
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
I've actually noticed this too. Seems like there are more trucks on the highway, longer trains, more cars on the roads. Maybe it's just me. Seems like it, though.
I don't live there but a guy I know there was working with constant lay-offs for minimum wage, no health plan and now is working full time with all sorts of benefits for $16 an hour. Another guy who wasn't working is now working, and another guy laid off for 2 years is now working a great job with all the benefits, making at least as much as he ever did.
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