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Old 05-25-2011, 12:28 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,095 posts, read 5,632,413 times
Reputation: 4404

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Quote:
You don't realize or acknowledge how many teachers pay out of their own pockets for things like school supplies that the district cannot provide because of budget cuts.

Yeah, those 38K a year teachers are the problem.

How many retired teachers do you see driving expensive cars? Here's a hint: Most drive Fords or Kias.
LOL... try not to focus so much on the salaries. It's not the salaries that are bankrupting school districts (even though many are making a lot more than 38K). It's lifetime health care and pensions that are unsustainable. Schools could easily pay much higher salaries if the benefit package was similar to that of a worker in the private sector (no pension, 401k only, an average health care plan). But that's not what the union wants. And they love it when people like you look only at the salary number and claim that teachers aren't getting much. You're playing right into the propaganda machine.
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Old 05-25-2011, 02:54 PM
 
8,174 posts, read 12,142,076 times
Reputation: 11029
Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
YES I have...physically and mentally. May not be direct relationship to budget cuts, but when they do not have access to counseling, food and health care like prisoners have, they indeed SUFFER...

Have you seen a child come to school in soiled clothing because they do not have a washer or other clothes? HAve you seen a child come to school so battered you wonder how they even function let alone smile--but school is their ONLY refuge and weekends and summer breaks are nothing short of HELL?? Have you seen a child come into school with the sole intent of harming another person because all they know is violence at home?

I have.
When we can find funding to incarcerate adults to the tune of $30K plus a year with FULL benefits, and we cannot provide students with the BASIC resources they SUFFER...

Come by most any school Mr. Snyder and see for yourself...and not the affluent burbs where they spent twice the state allocation of $7500 per pupil funding.

And it's not just a Michigan thing...

Whoa Whoa Whoa, since when is it the schools responsibility to provide food, counseling and health care? What about parents? Would we have so many people in prison if there were better parents? I mean, if your kid does great in life, the parents are proud and everyone says job well done. If there kid ends up in prison...what....its got nothing to do with them?
Personally I don't want raise other peoples kids whether their in school or prison.
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Old 05-25-2011, 05:34 PM
 
1,490 posts, read 3,260,883 times
Reputation: 697
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
LOL... try not to focus so much on the salaries. It's not the salaries that are bankrupting school districts (even though many are making a lot more than 38K). It's lifetime health care and pensions that are unsustainable. Schools could easily pay much higher salaries if the benefit package was similar to that of a worker in the private sector (no pension, 401k only, an average health care plan). But that's not what the union wants. And they love it when people like you look only at the salary number and claim that teachers aren't getting much. You're playing right into the propaganda machine.
Simple question: What have the teachers done to make the cost of health care skyrocket?

Answer: Nothing.
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Old 05-26-2011, 02:23 AM
 
Location: Kalamazoo, MI
11 posts, read 49,047 times
Reputation: 16
Quote:
Originally Posted by Giesela View Post
Whoa Whoa Whoa, since when is it the schools responsibility to provide food, counseling and health care? What about parents? Would we have so many people in prison if there were better parents? I mean, if your kid does great in life, the parents are proud and everyone says job well done. If there kid ends up in prison...what....its got nothing to do with them?
Personally I don't want raise other peoples kids whether their in school or prison.
Ouch. No one asks to be born into poverty or a bad situation. Yes, it's the parents' responsibility to make sure that children are cared for. But this isn't utopia - a lot of parents just don't do their job, and some CAN'T because of financial situations. How is that a child's fault? Believe me, I don't want to pay for other peoples' idiotic mistakes any more than the next guy, but I am more than happy to see innocent children get the things they deserve. Food is expensive - and not everyone qualifies or even asks for public assistance. Health care is expensive - just try getting out of a doctor's office for less than $100, and that's without tests and other procedures! Private insurance is pretty expensive too - and good luck getting approved. As for counseling - an average therapist costs around $125 per appointment.
Food at school - free for low-income families. School nurse - free. School counselor/psychologist - free.
It's unfortunate to say, but many kids would go without these basic necessities if the school didn't provide them. By saying "It's the parent's responsibility, I'm not raising anyone else's kids," you're turning your back on the innocent child. Then you wonder why so many kids are screwed up. No one was there for them when their parents failed them.
But you're right. It isn't the school's "responsibility." No one HAS to be there for these kids. However, it IS the morally right thing to do. If you don't want to raise someone else's child, don't. It's your right. But then don't come crying to anyone else if your own children ever need something that you are unable to provide. I think that's only fair.
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Old 05-26-2011, 03:12 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 24,812,995 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
LOL... try not to focus so much on the salaries. It's not the salaries that are bankrupting school districts (even though many are making a lot more than 38K). It's lifetime health care and pensions that are unsustainable. Schools could easily pay much higher salaries if the benefit package was similar to that of a worker in the private sector (no pension, 401k only, an average health care plan). But that's not what the union wants. And they love it when people like you look only at the salary number and claim that teachers aren't getting much. You're playing right into the propaganda machine.

If we can give it to prisoners, why shouldn't we give it to the kids?

That's all I'm sayin...

It's OK for politicians to have LIFETIME benefits after serving 1 term? And a VERY good retirement??
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:04 AM
 
362 posts, read 620,535 times
Reputation: 200
On the Flint ABC 12 TV this week one news story is about a school district that had to lay off 28 workers to meet this past years school buget. Monday there was a school board meeting to figure out how to meet the 2011-12 school buget with evenh less money. 18 more people get the lay off notices and bussing kids to school isn't going to happen any longer.
Now you as a worker your self have to figure out how you can make it to your job by the 6:00 AM start time and get your 3d grader to school by 8:30 AM. Can't expect your parnats to get them there, nor the baby sitter so what do you do.

We had jobs in this state at one time under the old bussness tax laws and we could again. But in case you have not noticed the GOP in many states has increases taxes on the low and middle income persons and lowered the taxes on bussness telling people that it will bring jobs to the state. Maybe it will and those getting laid off because of buget short falls in school funding and the shorting of revune shareing to counties, cities and villages will be able to get a job then. Probably a minium wage one at that, thats probably next LOWERING THE MINIUM WAGE. the GOP has said that stifles bussiness growth to.

All Hail King Richard and his court of jesters, May they keep there millions safe from the lowly working class and the wool pulled firmly over the voters eyes.

Al
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Old 05-26-2011, 08:35 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,095 posts, read 5,632,413 times
Reputation: 4404
Quote:
On the Flint ABC 12 TV this week one news story is about a school district that had to lay off 28 workers to meet this past years school buget. Monday there was a school board meeting to figure out how to meet the 2011-12 school buget with evenh less money. 18 more people get the lay off notices and bussing kids to school isn't going to happen any longer.
Now you as a worker your self have to figure out how you can make it to your job by the 6:00 AM start time and get your 3d grader to school by 8:30 AM. Can't expect your parnats to get them there, nor the baby sitter so what do you do.

We had jobs in this state at one time under the old bussness tax laws and we could again. But in case you have not noticed the GOP in many states has increases taxes on the low and middle income persons and lowered the taxes on bussness telling people that it will bring jobs to the state. Maybe it will and those getting laid off because of buget short falls in school funding and the shorting of revune shareing to counties, cities and villages will be able to get a job then. Probably a minium wage one at that, thats probably next LOWERING THE MINIUM WAGE. the GOP has said that stifles bussiness growth to.

All Hail King Richard and his court of jesters, May they keep there millions safe from the lowly working class and the wool pulled firmly over the voters eyes.

Al
Things got really crappy doing it the old way. Lets try something new. The end.
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Old 05-26-2011, 09:45 AM
 
1,648 posts, read 2,748,589 times
Reputation: 1438
"Simple question: What have the teachers done to make the cost of health care skyrocket?
Answer: Nothing."

That's part of the problem.

Question: What has every other industry and nongovernment worker done relative to the cost of health care.

Answer: Pay more out of pocket for less benefits.

It's about equality. When teachers are off fixed pensions (i.e. have 401K type plans like regular folks) and have comparable health contributions - we'll analyze budgets. Until then - it's whining because the fat kid is getting one less donut. Nothing to do with students. Absolutely nothing.
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Old 05-26-2011, 10:00 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 24,812,995 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
I'm not sure why you keep bringing up prisoners. Our state government also gave away millions of dollars in film industry subsidies. Are you mad that they didn't just give that money to schools instead? I mean sure, you might feel that way. But there's no point in wasting your energy saying "yeah, but they spend X amount of dollars on this!!" It's futile.

Do you really think that decreasing per pupil funding is going to make or break a kid's life? I think you are living in fantasy land. It's the home life that is most important, and school funding isn't going to change that one way or another.

If you really want to be mad at someone, get mad at the teachers' union. If they have a choice between reducing teachers' pensions or taking money away from the kids, they will screw the kids every single time. No one is forcing the schools to cut programs. If the unions would budge, that money could come out of the teachers' pockets instead. But pension cuts are always "off the table", even if it means Johnny can't afford to play high school basketball anymore, or Julia can't join the choir because the school has to cut the program (but those nice pensions remain intact!).

Failed logic? The pension is funded by TEACHER money / contribution.

Keep bringing up prisoners since they are "entitled" to many services our children are not afforded. And that was the basis for the OP thread.

It would be the poiticians that deserve the anger as they continue to raise their pay above and beyond their constituents average and they recieve retiremnt benefits after serving ONE term with LIFETIME medical..
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Old 05-26-2011, 11:38 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,095 posts, read 5,632,413 times
Reputation: 4404
Quote:
Originally Posted by belleislerunner View Post
"Simple question: What have the teachers done to make the cost of health care skyrocket?
Answer: Nothing."

That's part of the problem.

Question: What has every other industry and nongovernment worker done relative to the cost of health care.

Answer: Pay more out of pocket for less benefits.

It's about equality. When teachers are off fixed pensions (i.e. have 401K type plans like regular folks) and have comparable health contributions - we'll analyze budgets. Until then - it's whining because the fat kid is getting one less donut. Nothing to do with students. Absolutely nothing.

Awesome post. Thank you.
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