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Old 01-06-2012, 07:38 PM
 
Location: Santa Maria, CA
766 posts, read 1,446,100 times
Reputation: 651

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Anybody good at math and with some demographic data would have seen the problem with the SS system from the beginning. The whole thing is a scam and always was. First thing, most people were were expected to be dead before they could collect. More people were expected to be working than receiving benefits. This is how any good pyramid scheme works -- make sure you have a large number of people at the bottom feeding lots of cash to those on top. Congress liked it since they were able to "borrow", read steal, the extra funds mean for the masses at a later date.

The program was originally funded at 1% payroll tax with an upper cap and it's now 6.2% or 7.65% if you count medicare or 15.3% when you realize that the "employer's" portion is still yours. Even at this high rate, we're still not taking in enough to now cover retirees which means the system is officially broke and is expected to be in deficit territory for the rest of my lifetime. Coincidentally, this is the time that the baby boomers begin to draw SS which means we need a LOT more money going in. That means deficits will continue to grow higher and higher and no amount of increasing taxes on the rich is going to fix this.

The doom and gloom might have been preached but the people in power and our senior citizens were too greedy to do anything about it. Anybody starting work today would do better by investing 15.3% of their income annually than what they'll get in SS/Medicare (if anything). The Republicans tried changing the system so that future retirees would actually have something but the Democrats "protected" the status quo.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trail twister View Post
I sure Love all the nay sayers whoi claim they will not see a dime of SS when they retire. That doom and gloom has been preached since nearly the beginning.
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Old 01-06-2012, 08:56 PM
 
481 posts, read 854,461 times
Reputation: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp View Post
Anybody good at math and with some demographic data would have seen the problem with the SS system from the beginning. The whole thing is a scam and always was. First thing, most people were were expected to be dead before they could collect. More people were expected to be working than receiving benefits. This is how any good pyramid scheme works -- make sure you have a large number of people at the bottom feeding lots of cash to those on top. Congress liked it since they were able to "borrow", read steal, the extra funds mean for the masses at a later date.

The program was originally funded at 1% payroll tax with an upper cap and it's now 6.2% or 7.65% if you count medicare or 15.3% when you realize that the "employer's" portion is still yours. Even at this high rate, we're still not taking in enough to now cover retirees which means the system is officially broke and is expected to be in deficit territory for the rest of my lifetime. Coincidentally, this is the time that the baby boomers begin to draw SS which means we need a LOT more money going in. That means deficits will continue to grow higher and higher and no amount of increasing taxes on the rich is going to fix this.

The doom and gloom might have been preached but the people in power and our senior citizens were too greedy to do anything about it. Anybody starting work today would do better by investing 15.3% of their income annually than what they'll get in SS/Medicare (if anything). The Republicans tried changing the system so that future retirees would actually have something but the Democrats "protected" the status quo.
The "trust fund" is broke already. Any "surplus" is simply funded by the government borrowing from itself. Frankly, there needs to be some gutsy politicians that will pass through reforms that immediately make cuts for future recipients. For those receiving it now, hands off. For those less than 5 years away from 62, a 5% cut. For those more than 5 years away (I am 12 years away), a 10% cut. I know that won't make a huge dent but it will at least put it on a little better footing than it is now and I believe would also immediately pay intangible dividends for interest rates and lessen debt worries.

To stay on topic, I'm still fuming at Snyder's pension tax but I don't think you can say it SHOULDN'T be taxed at all. I thought there would be at least a moderate exemption (for early retirees) but I was wrong.
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Old 01-11-2012, 03:40 PM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,632 posts, read 14,224,026 times
Reputation: 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp View Post
Anybody good at math and with some demographic data would have seen the problem with the SS system from the beginning. The whole thing is a scam and always was. First thing, most people were were expected to be dead before they could collect. More people were expected to be working than receiving benefits. This is how any good pyramid scheme works -- make sure you have a large number of people at the bottom feeding lots of cash to those on top. Congress liked it since they were able to "borrow", read steal, the extra funds mean for the masses at a later date.

The program was originally funded at 1% payroll tax with an upper cap and it's now 6.2% or 7.65% if you count medicare or 15.3% when you realize that the "employer's" portion is still yours. Even at this high rate, we're still not taking in enough to now cover retirees which means the system is officially broke and is expected to be in deficit territory for the rest of my lifetime. Coincidentally, this is the time that the baby boomers begin to draw SS which means we need a LOT more money going in. That means deficits will continue to grow higher and higher and no amount of increasing taxes on the rich is going to fix this.

The doom and gloom might have been preached but the people in power and our senior citizens were too greedy to do anything about it. Anybody starting work today would do better by investing 15.3% of their income annually than what they'll get in SS/Medicare (if anything). The Republicans tried changing the system so that future retirees would actually have something but the Democrats "protected" the status quo.
Other Countries are facing the same problem, its not just the USA. Do not let your politics get in the way of fixing the problem. Thats what both parties did for 70 years. There is no doubt we will have to have some sort of value added tax. There are just too many people, everywhere. A start for the world in general, is to promote birth control. China did it, and it worked....however, now there are only men, many of the female future to be children were aborted.
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Old 01-11-2012, 07:44 PM
 
Location: Santa Maria, CA
766 posts, read 1,446,100 times
Reputation: 651
This country's problem isn't overpopulation. The native population of this country is actually reproducing below the replacement rate. The only reason we have increasing population is because the illegal immigrants are reproducing at nearly 2x the replacement rate and we keep allowing more and more legal immigration. The real problem is that the people we have coming in are POOR and typically from 3rd world nations. They are a net drain on our society. They aren't going to be the people supporting our seniors or any segment of our population. This country has to start limiting legal and ILLEGAL immigration. It's just another thing that's going to hasten the downfall of our nation.

You're right about other countries facing the same problem. Their immigrant problem is just as bad or worse than ours. France will be a Muslim country in our lifetimes. You can't keep letting foreigners in the country who won't assimilate and keep your culture and prosperity. I can't think of any country in Europe that's not suffering from immigration problems at the moment.

We don't need a value added tax in this country but I'd prefer a national sales tax to our current income tax system as long as we don't get both. It'd be nice to get rid of the IRS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
Other Countries are facing the same problem, its not just the USA. Do not let your politics get in the way of fixing the problem. Thats what both parties did for 70 years. There is no doubt we will have to have some sort of value added tax. There are just too many people, everywhere. A start for the world in general, is to promote birth control. China did it, and it worked....however, now there are only men, many of the female future to be children were aborted.
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Old 01-12-2012, 11:39 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,632 posts, read 14,224,026 times
Reputation: 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp View Post
This country's problem isn't overpopulation. The native population of this country is actually reproducing below the replacement rate. The only reason we have increasing population is because the illegal immigrants are reproducing at nearly 2x the replacement rate and we keep allowing more and more legal immigration. The real problem is that the people we have coming in are POOR and typically from 3rd world nations. They are a net drain on our society. They aren't going to be the people supporting our seniors or any segment of our population. This country has to start limiting legal and ILLEGAL immigration. It's just another thing that's going to hasten the downfall of our nation.

You're right about other countries facing the same problem. Their immigrant problem is just as bad or worse than ours. France will be a Muslim country in our lifetimes. You can't keep letting foreigners in the country who won't assimilate and keep your culture and prosperity. I can't think of any country in Europe that's not suffering from immigration problems at the moment.

We don't need a value added tax in this country but I'd prefer a national sales tax to our current income tax system as long as we don't get both. It'd be nice to get rid of the IRS.
We,as most all Countries do have limited immigration policies.Some are more strict than others. Try getting into Canada these days, its hard to do for any US citizen.New Zealand won't let anyone in, unless you bring a business that will show a Need and Necessity for the benefit of the Country..We have similar laws, but do take in workers that have the skills we are lacking.Our education system is in shambles, turning out dumb ,fat kids that can't find a "Job in their field of interest" crap. The US does not spend enough time and treasure on Education for the real world application .Kids should go to school year round, and study 10 hours a day or more. teachers should be paid on merit, and paid a lot more for the job they are hired to do, or, if they can,t handle it they go somewhere else period.
I speak of the value added tax as the best way to get the economy going on the consumer side. It works for many other countries just fine. Yes, there must be exceptions for the poor, disabled, and in firmed, but we pay for them already anyway.One Federal Sales tax won't work. Its against the Constitution from the start. Our founding fathers was the need to limit Government at all levels, especially at the State level . Can you imagine 50 different laws that conflict with each other....well we have some of that now, and its not working very well. Under Regan they pushed for more Federal control of Interstate Commerce,with in the states, the ICC was sunset-ed so all states would be on a level field, as it should be. Remember, " These United States" , DO mean something !. Deregulation of the Airlines came first, then in 1980 the Trucking industry. A lot of companies went out of business, maybe as it should be. Regulation at the federal level is an ongoing argument that will never be resolved. Everyone wants it their way, no one wants to give an inch, states and Federal Politics ,for fear of not being re elected. We need term limits both local and at Federal levels. If I had to choose, I would go the Federalist route, much safer than the forever corrupt States that are mired in Union,Mob,theft,and misrepresentation of matching funds..... Some say, our Country will break up over this, states will band together and become one, lots of talk about that a year ago I think,. Whatever, I do agree we need a smaller Government State and federal ( States should not tax anyone its double taxation ! ) and a more efficient one at that. First thing I would do would be to go after the fat cats Big ,too big to fail Corporations. What ever happened to the Monopoly laws? All we have done so far has been to return to the way it was before when the rich paid no tax,controlled the marketplace , the health care industry, and big drug interests. Not much has changed since GWB left office, I will agree with that, and he was a part of the largest deficit set up mess and increase spending bunch of crooks, like Chaney we have ever known.
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Old 01-13-2012, 04:25 AM
 
481 posts, read 854,461 times
Reputation: 364
Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
We,as most all Countries do have limited immigration policies.Some are more strict than others. Try getting into Canada these days, its hard to do for any US citizen.New Zealand won't let anyone in, unless you bring a business that will show a Need and Necessity for the benefit of the Country..We have similar laws, but do take in workers that have the skills we are lacking.Our education system is in shambles, turning out dumb ,fat kids that can't find a "Job in their field of interest" crap. The US does not spend enough time and treasure on Education for the real world application .Kids should go to school year round, and study 10 hours a day or more. teachers should be paid on merit, and paid a lot more for the job they are hired to do, or, if they can,t handle it they go somewhere else period.
I speak of the value added tax as the best way to get the economy going on the consumer side. It works for many other countries just fine. Yes, there must be exceptions for the poor, disabled, and in firmed, but we pay for them already anyway.One Federal Sales tax won't work. Its against the Constitution from the start. Our founding fathers was the need to limit Government at all levels, especially at the State level . Can you imagine 50 different laws that conflict with each other....well we have some of that now, and its not working very well. Under Regan they pushed for more Federal control of Interstate Commerce,with in the states, the ICC was sunset-ed so all states would be on a level field, as it should be. Remember, " These United States" , DO mean something !. Deregulation of the Airlines came first, then in 1980 the Trucking industry. A lot of companies went out of business, maybe as it should be. Regulation at the federal level is an ongoing argument that will never be resolved. Everyone wants it their way, no one wants to give an inch, states and Federal Politics ,for fear of not being re elected. We need term limits both local and at Federal levels. If I had to choose, I would go the Federalist route, much safer than the forever corrupt States that are mired in Union,Mob,theft,and misrepresentation of matching funds..... Some say, our Country will break up over this, states will band together and become one, lots of talk about that a year ago I think,. Whatever, I do agree we need a smaller Government State and federal ( States should not tax anyone its double taxation ! ) and a more efficient one at that. First thing I would do would be to go after the fat cats Big ,too big to fail Corporations. What ever happened to the Monopoly laws? All we have done so far has been to return to the way it was before when the rich paid no tax,controlled the marketplace , the health care industry, and big drug interests. Not much has changed since GWB left office, I will agree with that, and he was a part of the largest deficit set up mess and increase spending bunch of crooks, like Chaney we have ever known.
Some good points overall. I still like the State concept in the sense that we have at least some limited options to move around if we really become fed up with one State and their policies.

The discussion on teachers is right on. My wife works part-time at the local school and the disparity in talent/effort by teachers is quite wide. That is disturbing to the hard working ones because there is no difference in pay. Say what you want about motivation but money is HUGE and the fact that some of them can't get rewarded for their efforts (and others get paid despite LACK of effort) doesn't help the educational environment.

I'm not sure about what will improve education. Requiring even more schooling might not really work. As my wife sees, there are a LOT of kids that are simply not interested in learning. Not sure what we've done as a nation to raise lazy kids (video games?) but what she says about them is pretty disturbing and scary regarding our future. But I would hope with the hours they do spend in the classroom that it will be focused more on what will get them employed. There is something to be said about "following your talents/dreams" but that alone won't get you employed. I'm a big sports guy but I'll still say that our focus on athletics in schools and out of schools is a bit ridiculous.
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Old 01-13-2012, 06:50 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,632 posts, read 14,224,026 times
Reputation: 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by JimmyInGreatLakes View Post
Some good points overall. I still like the State concept in the sense that we have at least some limited options to move around if we really become fed up with one State and their policies.

The discussion on teachers is right on. My wife works part-time at the local school and the disparity in talent/effort by teachers is quite wide. That is disturbing to the hard working ones because there is no difference in pay. Say what you want about motivation but money is HUGE and the fact that some of them can't get rewarded for their efforts (and others get paid despite LACK of effort) doesn't help the educational environment.

I'm not sure about what will improve education. Requiring even more schooling might not really work. As my wife sees, there are a LOT of kids that are simply not interested in learning. Not sure what we've done as a nation to raise lazy kids (video games?) but what she says about them is pretty disturbing and scary regarding our future. But I would hope with the hours they do spend in the classroom that it will be focused more on what will get them employed. There is something to be said about "following your talents/dreams" but that alone won't get you employed. I'm a big sports guy but I'll still say that our focus on athletics in schools and out of schools is a bit ridiculous.
Agreed, way too much attention given to sports at the suffering of the kids that need an education and not some far out dream of being a professional Football player.... Whats wrong with our kids ? . Well, it starts at home. Germany and other Countries are way ahead of the US in that area, and, they are much stricter. Its all ways been that way. My Grandparents came from the old country and in my Grandma's case only an eight grade education, which back then was equal to 12th grade in this Country.Apprenticeship programs were the norm also. people and kids had a lot of pride in their abilities.....I think a lot of that started at home and in the schools. The US is so far down the list now its pathetic !
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Old 01-13-2012, 11:10 PM
 
Location: Santa Maria, CA
766 posts, read 1,446,100 times
Reputation: 651
Laws mean nothing without enforcement. The current administration does not want to enforce the immigration laws. You can argue that they deported more people than the Bush administration but that administration also had a despicable record on immigration. They did not however try to limit the states from enforcing immigration laws like this one has.

One of the biggest lies that's been continuously propagated is that legal immigration via the H-visa program (particularly the H-1b) is necessary to get the "best and brightest" from other nations in this country because our own citizens don't have the skills. The O-1 visa is the visa for "Extraordinary Ability Artists/Entertainers, Business People, Scientists, Educators, and Athletes". This visa has no cap for the number of people who want to come in. They're not the problem. The problem is the H-visa's since their entire purpose is to provide cheap skilled labor to American companies rather than having to pay college-educated Americans at market rates. These visa's should be abolished immediately and permanently. If we ever get back to full employment in this country and there are more jobs than people to fill them, wages will go up and the colleges will churn out more students to fill the demand in a period of 4 years. There was never a need for an H-visa program except in the mind of cheap employers.

There's not really a problem with our education system at the college level except that people often choose degrees which have no demand in the workplace. The state should provide no grants/student loans for these majors and the problem will correct itself. The problem with our K-12 system is that it's now setup so that everybody must pass and the goal of the system is simply to graduate people and not educate them. Not every kid will progress at the same rate but the teachers have to teach down to the lowest common denominator. Maybe the bar has to be raised earlier so that people who really aren't college material have a choice of vocational studies -- not everybody is going to college and not everybody is going to legitimately graduate. I'd rather have the dropouts dropout than to poison the classroom environment. The remaining problems are the kids themselves and their parents who don't value education and who didn't teach their kids proper discipline.

I don't think teacher's salaries are really the problem any more. It's the unions and federal/state rules which prevent the merit compensation and a better allocation of funds. Kids don't need more hours of study but simply better teaching and the teaching of the correct materials/courses. A lot of parents want school all year round and 10 hrs a day simply because they want to use the school as daycare; that's not its intended purpose. Kids have limited attention spans and forcing them in school 10 hrs a day plus homework seems cruel. How long would it take you to crack from the stress at 50-60 hrs a week with no vacation? Kids still need time to be kids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
We have similar laws, but do take in workers that have the skills we are lacking.Our education system is in shambles, turning out dumb ,fat kids that can't find a "Job in their field of interest" crap. The US does not spend enough time and treasure on Education for the real world application .Kids should go to school year round, and study 10 hours a day or more. teachers should be paid on merit, and paid a lot more for the job they are hired to do, or, if they can,t handle it they go somewhere else period.
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Old 01-14-2012, 10:36 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,632 posts, read 14,224,026 times
Reputation: 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp View Post
Laws mean nothing without enforcement. The current administration does not want to enforce the immigration laws. You can argue that they deported more people than the Bush administration but that administration also had a despicable record on immigration. They did not however try to limit the states from enforcing immigration laws like this one has.

One of the biggest lies that's been continuously propagated is that legal immigration via the H-visa program (particularly the H-1b) is necessary to get the "best and brightest" from other nations in this country because our own citizens don't have the skills. The O-1 visa is the visa for "Extraordinary Ability Artists/Entertainers, Business People, Scientists, Educators, and Athletes". This visa has no cap for the number of people who want to come in. They're not the problem. The problem is the H-visa's since their entire purpose is to provide cheap skilled labor to American companies rather than having to pay college-educated Americans at market rates. These visa's should be abolished immediately and permanently. If we ever get back to full employment in this country and there are more jobs than people to fill them, wages will go up and the colleges will churn out more students to fill the demand in a period of 4 years. There was never a need for an H-visa program except in the mind of cheap employers.

There's not really a problem with our education system at the college level except that people often choose degrees which have no demand in the workplace. The state should provide no grants/student loans for these majors and the problem will correct itself. The problem with our K-12 system is that it's now setup so that everybody must pass and the goal of the system is simply to graduate people and not educate them. Not every kid will progress at the same rate but the teachers have to teach down to the lowest common denominator. Maybe the bar has to be raised earlier so that people who really aren't college material have a choice of vocational studies -- not everybody is going to college and not everybody is going to legitimately graduate. I'd rather have the dropouts dropout than to poison the classroom environment. The remaining problems are the kids themselves and their parents who don't value education and who didn't teach their kids proper discipline.

I don't think teacher's salaries are really the problem any more. It's the unions and federal/state rules which prevent the merit compensation and a better allocation of funds. Kids don't need more hours of study but simply better teaching and the teaching of the correct materials/courses. A lot of parents want school all year round and 10 hrs a day simply because they want to use the school as daycare; that's not its intended purpose. Kids have limited attention spans and forcing them in school 10 hrs a day plus homework seems cruel. How long would it take you to crack from the stress at 50-60 hrs a week with no vacation? Kids still need time to be kids.
S0, you are saying that in other Countries, like N. Europe , the "kids" are of a different ability, ? , last longer studying ? have better attention spans?
We distribute industrial machinery CNC million dollar stuff. The buyers are having a hard time NOW in this climate, finding people to run these machines. Are you saying there are plenty of people unemployed here that can do the job....if it paid more ? Canada has about the same immigration laws as the US. For some reason, the people that can run the high dollar stuff CNC, are not hard to find, I wonder why? ( Remember, wages are higher in Ca. in general). I wonder how much health care issues, retirement, play into the mix?....... I am with you on the freeloaders ( even though I am Liberal ) , we must clean up our way of doing business all the way around. It all starts with Big Business and the connection to special interest Government.I think both side are tired of the system as it is now, too bad they can not work together to fix it. Will never happen. The real fix is to crash the system and start over , kinda like Ron Paul, but with more compassion.
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Old 01-14-2012, 05:14 PM
 
Location: Santa Maria, CA
766 posts, read 1,446,100 times
Reputation: 651
The reason you're having a hard time finding skilled CNC is because of what happened to salaries. Why is somebody going to stick with this career path at $16-$20/hr? Skilled machinists were making more than this 30 years ago. So not as many people are training for this and more employers are outsourcing the work. If the wages went up and you could actually find work after getting trained instead of employers saying they want 10+ years experience, you'd see a lot more people training to become these workers.

With respect to the kids, I'm saying that it'd make no difference in outcome if you kept them studying longer. These other countries still value education more in general than people in this country do. Too many parents in this country care way more about the extra-curricular activities of schools than the actual education received and just want their kids to get a diploma regardless of what they have "learned". The "no child left behind" program had potential if there would have been individual accountability on the standardized tests (ie your kid fails, he retakes the grade next year) instead of just looking at the schools in aggregate. I want to see the "you achieve, you succeed" act which required objective testing at each grade level; this will ensure kids are learning what they are supposed to.

I looked at my nephew's math book during the Christmas break and if I had to do what they do now, I'd be failing too. It seems like there's no emphasis on teaching the mechanics of algebra. They go right into application before having the fundamental tools mastered. I then asked about the teacher and he told me that his teacher admitted she wasn't good at math and it wasn't what she wanted to teach. I felt a bit sorry for him when I looked at his notes and thought that the teacher's self-assessment was right.

No matter how bad are K-12 schools are, the mistakes in them can be corrected at the college level. When choosing a major though, why would our best and brightest choose something like science/engineering? The programs are more difficult than the others for little pay back. Society is valuing programs like business/finance the highest. It's the one sector of the economy that wages have grown in.


Quote:
Originally Posted by darstar View Post
S0, you are saying that in other Countries, like N. Europe , the "kids" are of a different ability, ? , last longer studying ? have better attention spans?
We distribute industrial machinery CNC million dollar stuff. The buyers are having a hard time NOW in this climate, finding people to run these machines. Are you saying there are plenty of people unemployed here that can do the job....if it paid more ? Canada has about the same immigration laws as the US. For some reason, the people that can run the high dollar stuff CNC, are not hard to find, I wonder why? ( Remember, wages are higher in Ca. in general). I wonder how much health care issues, retirement, play into the mix?....... I am with you on the freeloaders ( even though I am Liberal ) , we must clean up our way of doing business all the way around. It all starts with Big Business and the connection to special interest Government.I think both side are tired of the system as it is now, too bad they can not work together to fix it. Will never happen. The real fix is to crash the system and start over , kinda like Ron Paul, but with more compassion.
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