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Old 06-20-2011, 05:29 AM
 
Location: Loving life in Gaylord!
4,121 posts, read 7,959,064 times
Reputation: 3900

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Quote:
Originally Posted by gndboy View Post
What is wrong with petroleum? Do we all believe the silly child's tale that petroleum is the compressed remains of big reptiles?
I have always had a hard time believing that also.
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:43 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,632 posts, read 14,245,238 times
Reputation: 2777
Quote:
Originally Posted by michmoldman View Post
I have always had a hard time believing that also.
Would decaying plants and trees make any difference.?LOL
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Old 06-20-2011, 12:13 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,776 posts, read 65,692,477 times
Reputation: 32973
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp View Post
Electric cars will never be viable for most people; they will always have a range limitation and unlike conventional cars -- the refueling time is in hours - not minutes.
This assumes that there will be no further advancements in battery technology. This is a questionable assumption since battery technology is one of the fastest advancing areas of technology right now. NiCad batteries went to NIMH then to lithium (is LION the same as lithium? Not sure). Battery powered tools have become practical in just a few years doe to advancements in battery technology. Now you can charge a small electronic device in a few minutes instead of overnight. The charge lasts longer and the devices draw more power than ever before. The same is true of car battery technology. the early electrics were lucky to get 10 - 20 miles on a charge. Now some of them will go as much as 100 miles. Charging time is being reduced as well.

By the way, does anyone know what the range of a Tesla is?
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Old 06-20-2011, 12:48 PM
 
Location: Loving life in Gaylord!
4,121 posts, read 7,959,064 times
Reputation: 3900
Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post
This assumes that there will be no further advancements in battery technology. This is a questionable assumption since battery technology is one of the fastest advancing areas of technology right now. NiCad batteries went to NIMH then to lithium (is LION the same as lithium? Not sure). Battery powered tools have become practical in just a few years doe to advancements in battery technology. Now you can charge a small electronic device in a few minutes instead of overnight. The charge lasts longer and the devices draw more power than ever before. The same is true of car battery technology. the early electrics were lucky to get 10 - 20 miles on a charge. Now some of them will go as much as 100 miles. Charging time is being reduced as well.

By the way, does anyone know what the range of a Tesla is?
Fortunately...everything advances. Scientists are always messing with power..IE.. atomic bombs and so forth. Eventually they will find ways to power vehicles easily and cheaper...thats just the way it goes. Of course cheaper by then may be way too much $$$$ for anyone to afford.
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Old 06-20-2011, 01:07 PM
 
Location: Michissippi
3,119 posts, read 7,309,338 times
Reputation: 2056
Quote:
Originally Posted by gndboy View Post
What is wrong with petroleum? Do we all believe the silly child's tale that petroleum is the compressed remains of big reptiles? Think big. Think 3500 miles beneath your feet, with a nuclear core. What does that weigh? Are you willing to stake your entire belief system on Al Gore, Jr.? Maybe we need to think a little different than we have been told by propaganda-driven governments and idiot bureaucrats. Is it remotely possible we do not know everything? Get your mind right and then use it.
Are you a geologist or some other sort of professional scientist? Do you have anything beyond basic middle and high school science courses in your background? What makes you think you are qualified to comment on matters like geology and Global Warming? Have you read hundreds of articles in scientific journals about it?

By the way, Al Gore isn't the source of what people know about Global Warming. Gore is dependent on the work of thousands of scientists who study Global Warming and climate change. To the extent that Gore has anything to say about it, he's just parroting what numerous scientists have said.

Now, would you be willing to stake your entire belief system on what morons like Sarah Palin or Rush Limbaugh have to say? Are they well-respected climate researchers and geologists?
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:23 AM
 
Location: Santa Maria, CA
766 posts, read 1,447,928 times
Reputation: 651
I don't really think that'll be the case with battery technology. These are basic chemical reactions which are well understood. An advancement in capacitors or zero point energy could mean a breakthrough in electric vehicles but the basic chemical reactions to produce electricity are known. Battery sizes may go down due to better manufacturing techniques and we might be able to utilize molten sodium batteries at lower temperatures for higher energy densities but there's not going to be a major advancement in battery technology to fix the problem.

Fuel cell technology is probably the field which will advance further.


Quote:
Originally Posted by michmoldman View Post
Fortunately...everything advances. Scientists are always messing with power..IE.. atomic bombs and so forth. Eventually they will find ways to power vehicles easily and cheaper...thats just the way it goes. Of course cheaper by then may be way too much $$$$ for anyone to afford.
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Old 06-21-2011, 03:03 AM
 
Location: Santa Maria, CA
766 posts, read 1,447,928 times
Reputation: 651
You don't have to have a lot of deep knowledge on the subject to know that the sun itself is a larger factor than the greenhouse effect at this time. The latest stories are now about global cooling because of a reduction in sun spots. The last mini ice-age was from 1550-1850 and included the 70 year Maunder Minimum of no sun spot activity. They're now predicting another period of minimal sun spot activity and lower temperatures.

Most of the planets in the solar system were showing warming during the previous active solar cycle. The global warming crowd was blaming this on man-made greenhouse gases and extrapolating a very small increase into a global crisis over time on a faulty assumption. But even if they're right, it's cheaper to deal with the consequences of slow warming than to try and change a way-of-life which directly benefits society. I'd also argue that volcanoes contribute a lot more to any atmospheric change than mankind. Whatever the cause -- if it happens, the answer is simply to move away from problem areas when they occur.

And I wouldn't consider Limbaugh and Palin morons -- they simply aren't believers in the new "climate change religion". It's a religion because it can't be proven -- you have to take it on faith that it'll happen and continue happening. In the 70's -- the scientists believed we were headed for a new ice age, in the 90's it was global warming, now it's supposed to be global cooling and then global warming so they just call it climate change so they can't be proven wrong. The global climate models just aren't good enough to predict a century out with any certainty and they would have us betting trillions of dollars on their predicted result. It's a bet that we can no longer afford.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Bhaalspawn View Post
Are you a geologist or some other sort of professional scientist? Do you have anything beyond basic middle and high school science courses in your background? What makes you think you are qualified to comment on matters like geology and Global Warming? Have you read hundreds of articles in scientific journals about it?

By the way, Al Gore isn't the source of what people know about Global Warming. Gore is dependent on the work of thousands of scientists who study Global Warming and climate change. To the extent that Gore has anything to say about it, he's just parroting what numerous scientists have said.

Now, would you be willing to stake your entire belief system on what morons like Sarah Palin or Rush Limbaugh have to say? Are they well-respected climate researchers and geologists?
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Old 06-21-2011, 06:15 AM
 
Location: State of Superior
8,632 posts, read 14,245,238 times
Reputation: 2777
Battery powered cars are nothing new. WE had them very early , in the early teens. Most had a lot of batteries, were driven by women to go shopping. Not having to turn a crank made a lot of difference. Then in 1912.... the electric starter came out ( somthing like 16 volt) , and everything changed. The internal combustion engine was full speed ahead. Everyone wants cheap, simple power, its been the goal since the horse. There is also a profit motive involved as well.
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Old 06-21-2011, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
27,776 posts, read 65,692,477 times
Reputation: 32973
Fuel cell cars are not that new either. They have had fuel cell powered vehicles for at least 8-10 years, maybe longer. The problem is that there is no practical way to collect and distribute hydrogen. I would put my money on further battery improvements before we solve the hydrogen problem. Batteries are constantly improving. Lithium batteries were either unknown or impractical ten or so years ago (except for cameras and watches), now they power everything. They are constantly developing new battery technology. Supposedly a Chinese car company has a car out that charges in minutes and has a range in excess of 100 miles (they probably cannot meet their claims when and if production actually begins, but they are certainly making advancements.). Fuel Cells may be an answer someday, but not for a very long time. Very likely not in my lifetime. Batteries that charge in an hour or so and can move a car 200 or more miles will definitely occur in my lifetime.

Incidentally, the Tesla reportedly goes over 200 miles on a charge if it is in "Range" mode.
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Old 06-21-2011, 09:29 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,095 posts, read 5,631,875 times
Reputation: 4404
Even if battery-powered cars become the norm for most parts of the world, I'm hoping that the gasoline engine will still be available for those who want them, or in certain climates. Batteries do not like cold weather. We will probably need some sort of battery heater to make those cars viable to the average Joe who has to park his car outside during the winter. And I hope I'm never stranded in a blizzard in a battery-powered car!
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