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Old 12-13-2011, 12:07 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,083 posts, read 34,945,612 times
Reputation: 16907

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrdwj View Post
In the Midwest League, there are 3 teams that stand out in terms of attendance: Grand Rapids, Dayton, and Lansing. But even the remaining cities listed above, support their teams better than the FSL, which is considered High A ball, while the Midwest is considered Low A. So consider you are a prospect for the Tigers, and you are playing before a crowd of 7,000, then you get "promoted" to a place where you are playing to a crowd of 500.
Where do you get the idea that the Whitecaps only have 500 in attendance? I would LOVE to see where you came up with that number. All the attendance figures I can find show at least 10X more on average.
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Old 12-13-2011, 12:10 PM
 
12,825 posts, read 20,816,565 times
Reputation: 10931
It's certainly a 21st Century "winner" in the increasing competition for a shrinking overall market for goods and services. "Losers" will end up as urban prairie, "winners" will be healthy established cities 500 years from now.
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Old 12-18-2011, 07:36 AM
 
1,090 posts, read 1,286,799 times
Reputation: 1183
I'm not sure it can support a professional team to rival any in Detroit. I'm pretty sure the fanbases are strapped as it is attending Wings, Lions, Tigers, and Pistons games. MLS would be a better bet, I think. Certainly not a hockey team, basketball isn't that popular in the state, and the Tigers have a long established history that a lot of fans wouldn't like to see challenged by some team in Grand Rapids. Maybe an NFL team could survive...but I don't know.
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Old 12-18-2011, 10:47 AM
 
9 posts, read 19,043 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
Where do you get the idea that the Whitecaps only have 500 in attendance? I would LOVE to see where you came up with that number. All the attendance figures I can find show at least 10X more on average.
I did NOT say that the whitecaps did 500 in attendance. (read again) I said the whitecaps have a higher attendance than any of the other midwest teams (save for Dayton or Lansing), and that FSL teams such as Lakeland have attendance of 500 per game.

However, listening to 3 broadcasts of Tampa Storm v. Grand Rapids Rampage of the AFL, 2 of which were in GR, and 1 in Tampa; the attendance for the GR games was horrible. The announcers had stated that such was also the case for the team in Columbus, and that these figures were typical of Rampage games.

I remember when the Hoops played in GR. I wanted to see a game, they wouldn't even tell me how much the tickets were.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:51 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,083 posts, read 34,945,612 times
Reputation: 16907
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrrdwj View Post
I did NOT say that the whitecaps did 500 in attendance. (read again) I said the whitecaps have a higher attendance than any of the other midwest teams (save for Dayton or Lansing), and that FSL teams such as Lakeland have attendance of 500 per game.

However, listening to 3 broadcasts of Tampa Storm v. Grand Rapids Rampage of the AFL, 2 of which were in GR, and 1 in Tampa; the attendance for the GR games was horrible. The announcers had stated that such was also the case for the team in Columbus, and that these figures were typical of Rampage games.

I remember when the Hoops played in GR. I wanted to see a game, they wouldn't even tell me how much the tickets were.
Must have read your post wrong.

Yeah, the Rampage never did have large crowds the games I have seen. I really don't think Pro teams in GR would be a good idea, especially a Baseball or Basketball team.
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Old 12-18-2011, 12:58 PM
 
7,237 posts, read 11,217,890 times
Reputation: 5588
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrendenMM View Post
It's true! Michigan deserves more than one city to have pro sports teams.
Here are some things that could happen.

NFL:
Name(s): Grand Rapids Kings, Grand Rapids Officers, ?
Stadium: Deltaplex Arena, probably: They would have to create a new stadium, all the stadiums in the area are not that large.

NBA:
Name(s): Grand Rapids Parrots, ?
Stadium: Van Andel Arena

MLB:
Name(s): Grand Rapids Seagulls, ?
Stadium: Fifth Third Ballpark - Would be perfect!
I would vote a MLB team the best. Grand Rapids would be perfect
for a new MLB team.

NHL:
Name(s): Grand Rapids Surfers, ?
Stadium: Van Andel arena, or create a new one.

-BrendenMM
Why would anyone with any hint of logic waste their money and time putting major sport franchises in a Metropolitan area that's only has just over 1 million people? Espeically when there are countless cities much larger than Grand Rapids who don't have any or only one?

Heck, is Grand Rapids even on the map outside of Michigan?

Does the rest of the state have that much hate for Detroit that someone would suggest something as silly as this?
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Old 12-19-2011, 08:16 AM
 
Location: Niceville, FL
8,218 posts, read 16,823,026 times
Reputation: 8850
2011 numbers- American tv markets larger than Grand Rapids that have no major league sports teams:

30 Hartford-New Haven (and they used to have the Whale)
36 Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville
38 West Palm Beach (too close to Miami-Ft. Lauderdale for their own teams; effectively falls within the Panthers exclusive rights zone for hockey)
39 Harrisburg-Lancaster
40 Birmingham, AL

41 Grand Rapids-Kalamazoo-Battle Creek

Smaller tv markets with major sports teams

45 Oklahoma City
48 Memphis
49 Jacksonville
51 Buffalo
52 New Orleans
71 Green Bay

Canadian NHL tv markets with a smaller population area than GR:

Edmonton
Calgary
Ottawa
(Quebec City)- one of the Phoenix relocation rumors, former home of the Nords
Winnipeg
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Old 12-20-2011, 07:20 AM
 
7,237 posts, read 11,217,890 times
Reputation: 5588
Quote:
Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
2011 numbers- American tv markets larger than Grand Rapids that have no major league sports teams:

30 Hartford-New Haven (and they used to have the Whale)
36 Greenville-Spartanburg-Asheville
38 West Palm Beach (too close to Miami-Ft. Lauderdale for their own teams; effectively falls within the Panthers exclusive rights zone for hockey)
39 Harrisburg-Lancaster
40 Birmingham, AL

41 Grand Rapids-Kalamazoo-Battle Creek

Smaller tv markets with major sports teams

45 Oklahoma City
48 Memphis
49 Jacksonville
51 Buffalo
52 New Orleans
71 Green Bay

Canadian NHL tv markets with a smaller population area than GR:

Edmonton
Calgary
Ottawa
(Quebec City)- one of the Phoenix relocation rumors, former home of the Nords
Winnipeg
1. Canada isn't the US.

2. Where in the heck did you get your numbers? Except for Winnipeg (smaller), all of those cities are the same size as Grand Rapids. Name one official source that consider Grand Rapids-Kalamazoo-Battle Creek one metropolitan area.

3. Most of those cities have maybe one major sports team at best. You're suggesting Grand Rapids should have all of them!!!

4. New Orleans by default doesn't count due to Katrina. Even then, they only have two major sports team. Again, you're suggesting Grand Rapids should have all of them!!!

BTW, I'm sorry, my numbers were wrong. Grand Rapids's CSA only has just over 1 million people max. The actual MSA only has 775,000.

EDIT: Magellen and MittenDweller82 both have it right. Again, the only reason some suggested this silly proposal is because they feel the same way danielj72, with respect to their vitriol hate for Detroit (whether or not they actually SAY it is another story). Otherwise, there is no logical basis for it (though I'm open to hear one).
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Old 12-20-2011, 09:05 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,095 posts, read 5,623,135 times
Reputation: 4404
Most people in Grand Rapids love and follow the Detroit sports teams. Most people consider those the "home" teams, and people generally enjoy making road trips to Detroit to watch the Lions, Tigers, Red Wings, and Pistons. This does not seem like the recipe for a successful pro sports market. You are not going to get generational sports fans of the Detroit teams to suddenly turn their backs on their favorite team in any of those sports, simply because G.R. got a team.

Michigan is a pretty easy state to travel across from one city to another. It's not like California, where people from L.A. aren't willing to drive to Oakland to support the Raiders because it is too much of a hassle (not the best analogy, but you get my point). It's actually pretty easy for people in Grand Rapids to support the Detroit teams. Honestly, our best bet going forward is for everyone in the state (other than those pesky Packers fans in the U.P.) to keep supporting the Detroit teams like they are now. As Detroit continues to lose people, the sports teams will depend more and more on people driving in from other parts of the state to watch games. With the shape Michigan is in economically, we should all be thankful that we still have 4 pro sports teams in the state, and do our best to support them statewide.
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Old 12-20-2011, 11:46 AM
 
Location: Cambridge, Isanti County, MN
3,193 posts, read 4,803,034 times
Reputation: 4303
I'm a die hard sports fan, but for anyone in GR wishing for a big 4 sports team, I would advise you to direct your energy elsewhere for a variety of reasons.

First, the big 4 (NBA, NFL, MLB, NHL) franchises require something that Grand Rapids could not generate on a consistent basis: insane amounts of money. There are not enough corporate sponsors in the area with that kind of clout (Meijer couldn't do it on its own), and none of the other teams in any of those leagues would want to share revenue with a team in such a small, unproven market. To even survive, GR would have to count heavily on fan defections from the Detroit franchises, and I'm sorry.....that is just NOT going to happen with generations of Detroit sports fans firmly rooted in and around GR itself. What you would wind up seeing is the same thing that goes on with many of the big 4 teams in the south and west; that being a towns home arena/stadium packed with fans of the opposing team (in this case, Detroit). Take it from someone who experienced that for years......it sucks.

Look at all the big 4 sports teams struggling to survive in metros larger than GR. Columbus and Phoenix in the NHL, Oakland and Tampa Bay in MLB, Jacksonville in the NFL, and about half the teams in the NBA. What makes you think a small metro like GR with no big 4 history would do any better than those towns boasting scores more people?

The Green Bay Packers example cannot be used to support any argument for a GR big 4 team. That franchise was founded almost 100 years ago in a completely different era......and have built a nearly cult-like legacy since that time, which is the reason they are able to not only compete, but thrive amongst the major markets across the country. They are a complete anomaly that just happens to currently be front and center on the big 4's stage. What I'm saying is that the Packers are a once in a lifetime occurance, and GR has no chance of duplicating that kind of success in the modern era of professional sports.

Lastly, don't be embarrassed to be a fan of any team you already have. It's been my experience, epsecially in the past 15-20 years, that I enjoy all of our teams here in Michigan - on every level - nearly as much as those we have in the big 4. The only reason the big 4 is better is that I can plop down in front of my 50 inch plasma with my choice of unlimited beer and food - plus my own personal restroom - to watch them with. I certainly don't enjoy paying hundreds of dollars in tickets, parking and concessions to go to a single game with my family. It's just barely worth it anymore, and because of this, I root in earnest for our local high school teams right up to the highest level minor league squads.....and I enjoy attending the games every bit as much. The big 4 leagues have so much drama and ridiculousness attached to them these days that it's nice to get away from that .......and more than just every now & then. So be careful what you wish for in that aspect.

Grand Rapids is up & coming, but I just can't see it as a big 4 sports town in my lifetime. Support the teams that are there already. Van Andel and Fifth Third are great facilities.....enjoy them......I know I would on a consistent basis if I lived there.

Last edited by Tyryztoll; 12-20-2011 at 11:54 AM..
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