[danielj72]

Originally Posted by northstar22

Michigan, outside of a few places (Ann Arbor, Kalamazoo, Detroit, Lansing), is pretty socially conservative. Some places (GR suburbs, Ottawa County, Allegan County minus Saugatuck) are VERY Christian and socially conservative. Hudsonville, for example, could easily be a Mississippi town.

Personally, I support legalizing marijuana. Why is it illegal, anyway? Legalizing it would put the drug dealers out of business and lower the crime rate, just as it has done in parts of Canada and Europe.

And no, I don't smoke.

I believe it should remain illegal, as in my opinion legalizing it means supporting this behaivor. Do I think we should lock people in prison and ruin thier lives over smoking pot?? no I dont. I think an appropriate way to handle it is to fine them and make them do community service for using that stuff. Pot use leads to more serious drug use, and I could never support legalizing it.

[northstar22]

Originally Posted by danielj72

W Liberals are often frustrated by this state, they think were on thier side but when something like the gay marriage ban comes up they toss thier hands in the air in frustration. We've had attempts to limit hunting rights on our ballot as well (bear baiting ban), another liberal darling cause and that went down in flames as well. Gun ownership and hunting are abslutely huge here, everyone I know has guns in thier home. Support for the second amendment could not be stronger and that is definatly not a liberal stance. In most truly liberal places you see people driving little gas sipper cars, eating tofu and putting coexist bumber stickers on the back of thier subarus. Michigan is more about big pickups and SUVs, deer hunting etc. Most of those union auto workers are big hunters, drive the big cars and they tend to despise the welfare programs that the democrats they voted for put in place. This state is not even solid dem anyway, we are always considered a swing state in play. Look who our govenor is, and there is a good chance we will go red this election cycle. I acknowledge we lean democrat, but this is more of a "blue dog" democrat state not a Massachusetts liberal type state. True liberalism does not do well here, so the dems rely on thier big union base alone.

I know what you mean. As a true nonviolent, equal-rights, pro-personal-freedom, nonreligious social liberal, Michigan's voting record on social issues is frustrating to me. There are some true liberal enclaves in MI (A2, Kzoo, Lansing, the city of Detroit), but much of the state is as you describe. Most of the Midwest (outside of major cities and college towns) is like that -- my current place of residence (Southern Minnesota) is even more conservative than rural Michigan.

[northstar22]

Originally Posted by danielj72

I believe it should remain illegal, as in my opinion legalizing it means supporting this behaivor. Do I think we should lock people in prison and ruin thier lives over smoking pot?? no I dont. I think an appropriate way to handle it is to fine them and make them do community service for using that stuff. Pot use leads to more serious drug use, and I could never support legalizing it.

Personal freedom. What adults do in the privacy of their own homes is no business of the state (as long as it harms no one else). I support legalizing ALL drugs for this reason.

Besides, pot use doesn't necessarily lead to heavier drug use. Many people who smoke don't use any other recreational drugs.

[detwahDJ]

Originally Posted by michigan83

The only thing more annoying than marijuana laws might be the people who want it legalized (not that I disagree).
Just think of what could be accomplished if all of the weed smokers put their energy into something productive instead of obsessing over whether pot is legal or not...

I wonder why alcohol drinkers are so much more productive. Maybe they don't need to "obsess" since they have theirs, and can use it judiciously.
If alcohol consumption was illegal, would drinkers start "obsessing" over that? Of course not.
You really didn't know that professional people smoke pot (and do recreational drugs)?

[michigan83]

Originally Posted by northstar22

Michigan, outside of a few places (Ann Arbor, Kalamazoo, Detroit, Lansing), is pretty socially conservative. Some places (GR suburbs, Ottawa County, Allegan County minus Saugatuck) are VERY Christian and socially conservative. Hudsonville, for example, could easily be a Mississippi town.

Personally, I support legalizing marijuana. Why is it illegal, anyway? Legalizing it would put the drug dealers out of business and lower the crime rate, just as it has done in parts of Canada and Europe.

And no, I don't smoke.

I'm not sure where the Mississippi comparison keeps coming from.

Yes, Hudsonville, MI, might have one similarity with a typical town in Mississippi: Christianity.

Other than that... they might as well be on different planets. Hudsonville (and the other conservative places in West Michigan) do not have the Bible Belt, redneck vibe of the Deep South in any way, shape, or form. The Christian Reformed crowd in West Michigan tends to be very reserved, thoughtful, educated (often at Hope College or Calvin College, but educated nonetheless), and generally not in-your-face about Christianity.

The Deep South is often associated with poverty... Ottawa County (where Hudsonville is located) is the wealthiest county in Michigan. Homes and businesses are generally very clean and well-kept. There is a strong entrepreneurial spirit and many people own their own businesses.

I could go on, but I won't. Just because a place is Christian and socially conservative does not mean that it is "just like Mississippi." I can understand why people are put off by social conservatives, but aside from that, Ottawa County, MI is a very nice place with a very high quality of life.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Peter B

Marijuana being illegal is probably one of the dumbest things our government continues to support. Anyone with half a brain knows that the only reason marijuana is still illegal is because of the billions of dollars the pharmaceutical, alcohol, and tobacco lobbyists throw at the the FEDs to KEEP it illegal. College kids drink themselves to death EVERY week in the USA but they can still get alcohol legally everywhere. If marijuana was legalized, alcohol sales would fall nationwide. Many folks would quit drinking or drink VERY little if pot was legalized. Pharmaceutical sales would plummet as well. Strange thing is, is that these common sense scenarios are NEVER mentioned in mainstream media.

Good point. I could take it one step further . War on drugs? That's been going on for many years, with little success . Its all a scam, from the money laundering, to the profit motives of big Pharma.
In other words, a distraction. When I was young, like most kids I tried it, and we drank cheap wine with it. Never could or would replace alcohol . We drank way too much, too many bars, too many drunks, and the resulting DUIs, runned lives, health issues, on and on, yet, drinking is legal, always will be. The same good old boys who make moonshine, now grow Weed in the woods as well. If anything we should outlaw booze, a much larger problem than pot.

[tuebor]

I grew up in Ann Arbor back when "decriminalization" was the watchword. That was when Ann Arbor passed the $5 fine for possessing small amounts. That seemed to work well enough.

I think it should be legal for those over 21, but employers should still be able to require employees not to use it as a condition of employment, and students should have to abstain in order to qualify for aid. Habitual use does impair certain mental functions.

[313Weather]

Originally Posted by michigan83

Mississippi/Texas? Michigan is nothing like those states. Do you think Jennifer Granholm would have ever been elected in either of those states? Nope. Michigan is more liberal than you give it credit for. And we have the scars to prove it.

Let's see...

*Loose gun laws
*Pulling teeth to invest in basic 21st century infrastructure outside of highways
*Gay Marriage is illegal
*One of the highest church attendance in the country
*Regressive sales and flat income tax
*Cuts in education
*Agrarian politics

And remind you, Granholm came on the heels of two conservative governors, and besides the MBT and film tax credits she didn't pass anyhting remotely liberal.

She was a blue dog (conservative).

Oh, and look no further than your snarky last sentence. I GUARANTEE you no liberal policies led to the mess Michigan is in (though I welcome you to find one). With Miliken and Engler, Mcihigan came off 2-3 decades of conervative policies, and Michiganders voted in Snyder in sync with the far right legislator to finish the job.

Heck, it was like pulling teeth to get the medical marijuana law passed, and they're in the process or overthrowing that one now.

[313Weather]

Originally Posted by michigan83

I'm not sure where the Mississippi comparison keeps coming from.

Yes, Hudsonville, MI, might have one similarity with a typical town in Mississippi: Christianity.

Other than that... they might as well be on different planets. Hudsonville (and the other conservative places in West Michigan) do not have the Bible Belt, redneck vibe of the Deep South in any way, shape, or form. The Christian Reformed crowd in West Michigan tends to be very reserved, thoughtful, educated (often at Hope College or Calvin College, but educated nonetheless), and generally not in-your-face about Christianity.

The Deep South is often associated with poverty... Ottawa County (where Hudsonville is located) is the wealthiest county in Michigan. Homes and businesses are generally very clean and well-kept. There is a strong entrepreneurial spirit and many people own their own businesses.

I could go on, but I won't. Just because a place is Christian and socially conservative does not mean that it is "just like Mississippi." I can understand why people are put off by social conservatives, but aside from that, Ottawa County, MI is a very nice place with a very high quality of life.

Which is why I said "Mississippi/Texas hybrid." It has some characteristics of Texas (what you describe) and some characteristics of Mississippi (the backwater-ness and stiff segregation if not out-right racism).

[northstar22]

Originally Posted by tuebor

I grew up in Ann Arbor back when "decriminalization" was the watchword. That was when Ann Arbor passed the $5 fine for possessing small amounts. That seemed to work well enough.

I think it should be legal for those over 21, but employers should still be able to require employees not to use it as a condition of employment, and students should have to abstain in order to qualify for aid. Habitual use does impair certain mental functions.

I strongly disagree. One's employer does not own him/her, and should have no say over what he/she does outside of work. The same principle applies to college students.