[michmoldman]

There is no "winter" in southern/central Michigan any more. It sucks!! Thats why I am just about ready to make the move north. The day is getting ever so close! At the least, I want to be able to go to the U.P without driving 6 hours...now thats where the REAL winters are.

[michsnowlvr]

Originally Posted by michmoldman

There is no "winter" in southern/central Michigan any more. It sucks!! Thats why I am just about ready to make the move north. The day is getting ever so close! At the least, I want to be able to go to the U.P without driving 6 hours...now thats where the REAL winters are.

Its posts like these that I just dont get and can really confuse the heck out of someone posting for some advice on what winters are like here. You have an OP from Memphis, TN asking what winters in SE MI are like. And you get responses like "there is no winter" or "if it snows its usually..." that are completely, 100% false. And i dont get why people do this!? I love winter more than anyone and id LOVE if we could be buried like those in the Lake Superior snowbelts. But I also know a lot of meteorology and climatology, and winters in SE MI are colder/snowier than about 80% of the U.S. Thats why posters acting like there is no winter, I just dont get it. ESPECIALLY since OUTSIDE OF 2011-12, we have been getting slammed with a surplus of snow in recent winters, as well as snowcover.

First of all, is funny you should say theres no winter anymore, and the UP is where its at. The last 5 years (outside last winter) snowfall had been well above normal here and well below in the UP, and in fact DETROIT and SAULT STE MARIE had the SAME seasonal snowfall in 2010-11, and Detroits peak snow depth was HIGHER. This aside, obviously winters are much snowier in the U.P. than southern MI. I take a trip to the U.P. every year during the harshest part of winter, had to cancel it in 2011 bc there was more snow here, and most other years (outside of this year just past, 2012) there is just as much or more snow HERE than there is until we hit Gaylord.

To the original poster, theres no way to get around it. MOST of the time from mid-Dec to late-Feb, snow will be on the ground in central/southern MI, sometimes a picturesque blanket, sometimes deep. There will be a few bare periods, but snow will be on the ground most of the time. There will also be periodic snow from Nov to mid-Dec and late-Feb to early Apr, but as said, deep winter is the aformentioned mid-Dec to late-Feb period. I hope the pics and weather stats I posted will give you a little bit better of an idea of what winter is here.

BTW, in my original data post, I forgot to post the monthly averages for snowfall at Detroit Metro:
Oct- 0.1"
Nov- 1.4"
Dec- 9.6"
Jan- 12.9"
Feb- 10.9"
Mar- 7.1"
Apr- 1.7"

OH and one more thing, and Im surprised this hasnt been mentioned in this thread. The old-timers will tell you it used to snow more when they were kids, the irony is that it is snowing more now. In addition to an increase in average snowfall, the past decade Detroits average for snowstorms that drop more than 6 inches of snow has risen from 1 per season to 2.

Bottom line, while you will not be absolutely buried in snow like you probably were during your childhood in the U.P., you basically will be moving from a place that sees very little winter to a place that sees a lot of it. Though only on a few occasions a year will you have a very heavy accumulation that causes delays to your day, on many mornings you will need the snow brush with you, and again, consistency and frequency of snow is something that will take a lot of adjusting from Memphis, but as a yooper you will no doubt do fine! Hope my pics helped as well!

[JGatti]

Originally Posted by michmoldman

There is no "winter" in southern/central Michigan any more. It sucks!! Thats why I am just about ready to make the move north. The day is getting ever so close! At the least, I want to be able to go to the U.P without driving 6 hours...now thats where the REAL winters are.

I agree and have the same plan. I don't care for sub zero bitter cold ( who really does?). BUT if I have to be cold I want snow and I want A LOT OF IT!!!!!

[michmoldman]

Originally Posted by michsnowlvr

Its posts like these that I just dont get and can really confuse the heck out of someone posting for some advice on what winters are like here. You have an OP from Memphis, TN asking what winters in SE MI are like. And you get responses like "there is no winter" or "if it snows its usually..." that are completely, 100% false. And i dont get why people do this!? I love winter more than anyone and id LOVE if we could be buried like those in the Lake Superior snowbelts. But I also know a lot of meteorology and climatology, and winters in SE MI are colder/snowier than about 80% of the U.S. Thats why posters acting like there is no winter, I just dont get it. ESPECIALLY since OUTSIDE OF 2011-12, we have been getting slammed with a surplus of snow in recent winters, as well as snowcover.

First of all, is funny you should say theres no winter anymore, and the UP is where its at. The last 5 years (outside last winter) snowfall had been well above normal here and well below in the UP, and in fact DETROIT and SAULT STE MARIE had the SAME seasonal snowfall in 2010-11, and Detroits peak snow depth was HIGHER. This aside, obviously winters are much snowier in the U.P. than southern MI. I take a trip to the U.P. every year during the harshest part of winter, had to cancel it in 2011 bc there was more snow here, and most other years (outside of this year just past, 2012) there is just as much or more snow HERE than there is until we hit Gaylord.

To the original poster, theres no way to get around it. MOST of the time from mid-Dec to late-Feb, snow will be on the ground in central/southern MI, sometimes a picturesque blanket, sometimes deep. There will be a few bare periods, but snow will be on the ground most of the time. There will also be periodic snow from Nov to mid-Dec and late-Feb to early Apr, but as said, deep winter is the aformentioned mid-Dec to late-Feb period. I hope the pics and weather stats I posted will give you a little bit better of an idea of what winter is here.

BTW, in my original data post, I forgot to post the monthly averages for snowfall at Detroit Metro:
Oct- 0.1"
Nov- 1.4"
Dec- 9.6"
Jan- 12.9"
Feb- 10.9"
Mar- 7.1"
Apr- 1.7"

OH and one more thing, and Im surprised this hasnt been mentioned in this thread. The old-timers will tell you it used to snow more when they were kids, the irony is that it is snowing more now. In addition to an increase in average snowfall, the past decade Detroits average for snowstorms that drop more than 6 inches of snow has risen from 1 per season to 2.

Bottom line, while you will not be absolutely buried in snow like you probably were during your childhood in the U.P., you basically will be moving from a place that sees very little winter to a place that sees a lot of it. Though only on a few occasions a year will you have a very heavy accumulation that causes delays to your day, on many mornings you will need the snow brush with you, and again, consistency and frequency of snow is something that will take a lot of adjusting from Memphis, but as a yooper you will no doubt do fine! Hope my pics helped as well!

Well to someone from the south..yes sorry to you a few flurries is a major storm, so yes...you will have an incredibly, amazingly snowy winter.

[michsnowlvr]

Originally Posted by michmoldman

Well to someone from the south..yes sorry to you a few flurries is a major storm, so yes...you will have an incredibly, amazingly snowy winter.

Oh yes, thats what I said, a few flurries is a major storm. Rrrrrrrright. Because, ya know, thats all we get is flurries and dustings of snow here, right? I dont know where you live, but the seasonal snowfall (rounded to nearest inch) the last 5 years has been: Detroit: 26", 69", 44", 66", 72"....Flint: 33", 72", 45", 73", 83"....Saginaw: 45", 76", 46", 79", 80". Yep, we don't have winter anymore.

Trust me, Im a fellow snow-lover who cant get enough. If I could control the weather my backyard would be buried in snow, Keewenaw-peninsula style, from Nov 1st -Apr 15th. But this thread isnt about what is your dream winter, or comparing S MI to the U.P. Its someone from the deep south inquiring about how different winter is in SE MI from extreme SW TN. And a few of the exaggerated responses likely lead the original poster to scratch her head thinking, "so...wait a minute....a Detroit winter isnt much different than a Memphis winter?????", which is totally false. Winter temps alone are some 17 degrees colder in Detroit than Memphis. Where she lives now she may see it snow a few times a year and it melts in a day, whereas here she will see snow blanket the ground for weeks at a time several times throughout the course of an average winter, and for several months straight in a cold winter (ie 2010-11), and more sporadic snow-melt-snow-melt cycles in a milder winter (ie 2011-12). Yes we do see many of those nuisance dustings that require a simple brush of the car windshield and let the wind or sun take care of the sidewalk, but realistically she will probably need to shovel 5-15 times a winter, depending on the winter.

Its actually part of a phenomena we witness because we do live in Michigan. To a huge majority of U.S. residents, if they spent an average winter in Detroit, Chicago, or Milwaukee....they will think "WOW its cold, windy, cloudy, and snowy here". But we LIVE in the Great Lakes, so we hear daily about those ferocious lake effect storms that bury the snowbelts of our state. We may have a few inches of snow covering our backyard and they are showing someone downwind of Lake Superior that has a few FEET. Particularly early in the season (Nov to mid-Dec) a good lake effect storm can bury some areas in feet of snow while we are still bare ground downstate. Of course this makes downstate winters look fickle, and very rightly so. But a Great Lakes snowlover lamenting how harsh winters in nearby snowbelts are can very easily taint the proper picture of how "harsh" a SE MI winter actually would be to most other folks not accustom to the fury of a typical Lakes winter.

[michsnowlvr]

Since we did talk about snow throughout the state, here are a few comparison numbers of the average snowfall and days with full snowcover. Once you get just north of Detroit, you will gain many days of snowcover moreso than more actual snowfall until you get north of Flint, then snowfall and snowcover will steadily increased. This is a great view of how snowfall and snowcover increases as you head north. Also note a bit of I-94 snowband influence in the Ann Arbor data.

MEMPHIS, TN: 4" annual snowfall, 3 days with full snowcover
LOUISVILLE, KY: 14" annual snowfall, 10 days with full snowcover
CINCINATTI, OH: 22" annual snowfall, 22 days with full snowcover
TOLEDO, OH: 37" annual snowfall, 43 days with full snowcover

DETROIT: 44" annual snowfall, 50 days with full snowcover
ANN ARBOR: 58" annual snowfall, 60 days with full snowcover
FLINT: 48" annual snowfall, 65 days with full snowcover
LANSING: 49" annual snowfall, 67 days with full snowcover
GRAND RAPIDS: 76" annual snowfall, 68 days with full snowcover
HOUGHTON LK: 67" annual snowfall, 103 days with full snowcover
ALPENA: 85" annual snowfall, 110 days with full snowcover
SAULT STE MARIE: 116" annual snowfall, 133 days with full snowcover

[Nivalis]

Originally Posted by michsnowlvr

<snip pics>

Great pics I can't wait for winter to get here... I was hoping for more snow last winter, but it was still the best one in years, because it was my first winter since I moved back from MS. Hoping for at least average conditions this year!

Don't want to hijack this thread, but do you know why Ann Arbor gets so much more snow than the Metro Airport? Even last winter we got up to 40 inches. I can only think of two possibilities:
- the remnants of lake effect stop somewhere along the Washtenaw-Wayne county line
- the warmer temperatures of the urban heat island result in less accumulation

[detwahDJ]

Michsnowlvr, that first picture in the second group is the Detroit River?

[NicoleKu]

Yes --- thank you michsnowlvr - the pics and the comparisons give a really clear idea of the amounts we're talking about. I know that last year was a non-winter, but that's not at all normal, and not an indication of the future winters.

I'm actually happy to hear there is more snow and cold than the first few posters mentioned. I want that to an extent. I find winter in the South to be depressing because it gets cold and dark, like a never-ending Michigan November. I found that the seasonal depressant issues are here as much as, or more than in Michigan. The snow tends to brighten winter up, and when there isn't any, all you're left with is brown dead things on the ground and dismal rain days.

And Nivalis -- I'm glad to hear that AA gets more snow than Detroit, for any reason It does seem odd that the amount changes so much over a small area... Lakes mess with weather in the strangest ways.

[michsnowlvr]

Originally Posted by Nivalis

Great pics I can't wait for winter to get here... I was hoping for more snow last winter, but it was still the best one in years, because it was my first winter since I moved back from MS. Hoping for at least average conditions this year!

Don't want to hijack this thread, but do you know why Ann Arbor gets so much more snow than the Metro Airport? Even last winter we got up to 40 inches. I can only think of two possibilities:
- the remnants of lake effect stop somewhere along the Washtenaw-Wayne county line
- the warmer temperatures of the urban heat island result in less accumulation

Snowfall for Ann Arbor is recorded at the University of Michigan. I believe they have a very good weather observing station, and great care is provided in the measurments, ie they never miss a dusting lol. I also notice that lake effect seems to really like Ann Arbor. There are usually a few storms a year that Ann Arbor makes out and Detroit gets less due to storm track, or rain mixing in, but I think a lot of it has to do with lake effect. I cant count the times during a strictly lake effect snowfall that we will get a dusting here of a half inch or less when Ann Arbor is getting 1 to 3 inches. I think a lot has to do with their perfect positioning near I-94. During a westerly flow off of Lake Michigan the old "I-94 snowband" can set up shop and actually often strengthen if instability in the atmosphere is right (daytime "heating") and really dump on Ann Arbor, even sometimes moreso to areas to Ann Arbors WEST, and then the band tends to fizzle out once it nears Detroit (though snow still does fall here). SE MI is NOT, I repeat, NOT a snowbelt like so many areas of the state, but due to Lake effect REMNANTS from all direction (ie usually from Lakes MI, but once in a while from Erie and Huron), this is why you can count on at least 20-40 days each Nov-Apr period where snowflakes are in the air and accumulate nothing, in addition to the 35-40 days per year with measurable snow falling. Those days make for a nice atmosphere and cause absolutely NO travel disruptions.

Its easy to cite Detroits 44" snow average as a rule for SE MI, but there are several areas, ie the Ann Arbor vicinity and up towards Detroits NW burbs of Oakland county, where the average is most definitely over 50". Those places actually see more snowfall than many areas to our north in central and even the southern reaches of northern lower MI that are outside the snowbelts. But those more northern places will make this up with more days of snowcover. During most winters, once you get to Houghton Lake on north, you will not see your grass from mid-late November until sometimes between mid-March and mid-April. That does not happen in SE MI, though in some winters you wont see grass from mid-Dec to mid-late Feb. But I will say, once a thaw makes the ground go bare and you look outside at the dead grass and dirty old snowbanks, theres no more calming feeling then when the next snow comes and rewhitens and freshens the landscape up like magic. I guess if you want to look at the glass half-full, thats a benefit of having periodic thaws in the winter.