[PreservationPioneer]

I thought it would be fun for those of us who have knowledge and an interest in Michigan's larger urban places to rank them in terms of which we are most fond of. Please include reasons for your rankings of certain cities above others, and please only rank cities that you are familiar with. For instance, if you have never been to Flint, don't put it at the bottom of your list based on the negative things you've heard, instead of utilizing your own experiences and opinions.

Finally, I think there would most likely be a Grand Rapids / Detroit rivalry if I were to include those cities in this ranking. I'm more interested in hearing what people think of Michigan's other cities (not Grand Rapids or Detroit). I would also like this to focus on urban places and not suburban places. I realize some of Detroits suburbs are larger than independent cities in Michigan.

Here are some of the major cities in Michigan after Detroit and Grand Rapids, in order of largest to smallest (excluding some of the suburbs, which have larger populations than some actual cities):

Lansing
Ann Arbor
Flint
Kalamazoo
Pontiac
Royal Oak
Ypsilanti
Battle Creek
Saginaw
Midland
Muskegon
Bay City
Jackson
Holland
Port Huron

My ranking of those I have been to (I hope to visit more!):

Jackson (my favorite city in Michigan. I love the history and Victorian architecture)
Ann Arbor (has a vibrant urban experience that is hard to find in Michigan)
Ypsilanti (the poor man's Ann Arbor. Lots of beautiful architecture. Downtown Ypsilanti seems like it's really on the upswing)
Lansing (My home town. While I think Lansing is a somewhat bland city, I still like it)
Flint (has some potential, but it's not there yet)

I've been to Kalamazoo, Bay City, Midland, and Saginaw before, but I haven't sufficiently explored them and my memory is not fresh enough to compare them to the other cities.

[Tiger Beer]

You missed Dearborn.....which surprised me, as I know how much you appreciate cities with some amazing architecture...and Dearborn is filled with it.

For my list...I'd say...

Dearborn, MI A very underrated well-taken care of, safe, urbanish city. Brick and tudor homes everywhere. Filled with 30-40% Arabic, which might be why it's often overlooked, but it shouldn't be.

Royal Oak, MI (not for the architecture, but just for being a relatively lively walkable suburb).

Ann Arbor, MI (It's almost impossible not to put this city on any positive attribute MI list)

Bay City, MI (gorgeous victorian houses absolutely everywhere, and feels free of the usual typical MI urban problems).

Lansing, MI (not that Lansing is that interesting in itself, but I like East Lansing, and it brings in a lot of international students to the area. Both Okemos and East Lansing, (Lansing suburbs), are roughly 15% Asian, for example.

Another one not on the list, but is a pretty nice place is Marquette, MI, up in the U.P.

[michigan83]

I think this is a fun thread idea.

After Detroit and Grand Rapids:

1. Kalamazoo: Actually more of a "college town" than Lansing, since WMU and K-College are actually within the city limits, and Lansing isn't influenced by MSU all that much. Lots of cool restaurants and bars downtown, and a nice movie theater. Surrounding areas are nice, with wineries, orchards, and Lake Michigan an easy drive. Has a progressive vibe.

2. Ann Arbor: Has an urban, east coast vibe. Very vibrant. Walkable downtown with lots of shops and restaurants. University of Michigan provides big time entertainment (U of M Football, basketball). Haven't spent as much time there as Kalamazoo, or it might move to #1. Biggest downfall is there's not much "skyline" in Ann Arbor. Not even as good as Battle Creek.

3. Lansing: Seems to be slowly improving. Washington square has lots of restaurants and even some shopping now. Downtown could be more lively, but if you catch it at the right time it there can be lots of people out and about. The new Accident Fund insurance headquarters (in the refurbished power plant) is one of the coolest urban revitalization projects I've seen anywhere. It is worth checking out if you're ever in Lansing. I also like having the minor league ballpark downtown, which is actually much better than what GR has.

4. Battle Creek: For a town that has seen better days, I still like downtown Battle Creek. Has good architecture for a smaller city, with the twin "skyscrapers" being impressive for a smaller city. Has some good restaurants and a microbrewery. One of my favorite places to go during Christmas time.... they do a great job of decorating everything in lights.

5. Holland: Beautiful downtown, no shortage of shops and restaurants. A little too small for me to rank above the other 4 places, but it's nicer than all of the above.

6. Pontiac: It's a little on the "gritty" side, but I have good memories from going to Pontiac. Namely, Detroit Lions games and a concert at Clutch Cargo's a long time ago. Not a place I'd want to live, but interesting to visit.

Places that I don't know enough about to rank, but would like to explore:

Marquette
Royal Oak
Flint
Dearborn
Jackson
Saginaw
Bay City
Midland

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by michigan83

I think this is a fun thread idea.

After Detroit and Grand Rapids:

1. Kalamazoo: Actually more of a "college town" than Lansing, since WMU and K-College are actually within the city limits, and Lansing isn't influenced by MSU all that much. Lots of cool restaurants and bars downtown, and a nice movie theater. Surrounding areas are nice, with wineries, orchards, and Lake Michigan an easy drive. Has a progressive vibe.

3. Lansing: Seems to be slowly improving. Washington square has lots of restaurants and even some shopping now. Downtown could be more lively, but if you catch it at the right time it there can be lots of people out and about. The new Accident Fund insurance headquarters (in the refurbished power plant) is one of the coolest urban revitalization projects I've seen anywhere. It is worth checking out if you're ever in Lansing. I also like having the minor league ballpark downtown, which is actually much better than what GR has.

which is making think, what if East Lansing would have been part of Lansing? Would the road to the capital building had more college-minded influenced buildings? Would have college students occupied more urban houses instead of the more Okemos-way direction?

Lansing has the right ingredients like a potential Austin or Madison, yet somehow falls way short of it, and I can't put my finger why that is exactly.

[animatedmartian]

I'm not terribly well traveled (yet) so this is a bit of a short list.

Ann Arbor: First time I visited, I feel in love with the scenery and how compact the city felt without the feeling of seeing sprawl everywhere. A few of my college friends often hang out here and currently I don't go there too much but I'd really like to. My only experience is at the Children's Science Museum when I was about 16 or 17 and Ann Arbor left a mark on me early.

Royal Oak: I've been sort of disappointed by Royal Oak. It feels too small to me. The area of highest activity is along Main and Washington, but outside of those areas, it feels like a typical suburban environment. As big as a hotspot as RO is meant to be, I sort feel like I want more urbanism than what's currently there. While this city isn't on the list, Birmingham, MI, definitely feels like it has RO beat in the dense walkability department. I've enjoyed Birmingham more than RO though in part because it's more affluent and you see more things of quality (architecture, art pieces, etc.). But, RO has the concert venues and it's a good place to meet people my age. Me being a 20-something, I think RO is where I would likely end up in the future, if not anywhere else (but once I become a Yuppie, I'd probably move to Birmingham).

Flint: Cute little town. It feels like a smaller version of Detroit, both the good and the bad. My only experience was just driving up Saginaw Road into MLK Avenue. Just after dusk. It felt very similar to Detroit and I hope it's a town that gets back on its feet in the future. It has great potential but I know how it feels to be a city on hard times.

Pontiac: A city also on hard times. But it's also a destination for many bands and I like that. I've yet to go to the music venues, but I'm looking forward to it. Pontiac is much like Flint and Detroit having been formally an industrial center and it shows. Much like Flint and Detroit, I hope that the city grows in the future and becomes a great asset in the "dense walkable cities of Michigan" department. I don't understand why they looped Woodward around the downtown area and built an isolating parking garage thing on the southern end of of the area. Certainly not great additions in Pontiac's urban planning history...

[aoletsgo]

Tied for first place are almost all the small towns on Lake Michigan from St. Joe all the way north to Harbor Springs. However, for larger "real" towns here is my list:
Ann Arbor - nuff said already
Houghton – college town, great downtown, bars, micro brewery, restaurants, cobble stone streets, fantastic granite buildings and in the middle of the beautiful Keweenaw Peninsula – kinda like a small Burlington VT without the east coast preppies
Marquette – ditto the Houghton comments but its a little bit bigger town
Kalamazoo – the southern version of Houghton/Marquette
Midland – not for everyone (mostly white, conservative and suburban) but clean, prosperous and safe
Central/southern farm towns – overall nice, friendly places to live and mostly keeping their head above the economic waters
Northern towns – those without colleges or tourism, nice countryside but not much to do (beside fishing and hunting) and very few jobs
Mid-size factory towns – take your pick Flint, Saginaw, Lansing etc, all have some nice areas but face considerable economic challenges that bring them down

[PreservationPioneer]

The only reason I left Dearborn out was because I have never been there and wasn't sure if it was more city or more suburban in character. It is hard to differentiate between urban and suburban in Detroit's outlying population centers, if you have never been there. So which of Detroit's suburbs and outlying towns are actually urban in character, have their own historic architecture and business districts, and are somewhat independent cities? I think Pontiac fits the bill. What others?

[PreservationPioneer]

I'm dying to get up to Bay City to do some exploring. I've heard Saginaw has some Victorians as well.

[Tiger Beer]

Originally Posted by alleghenyangel

I'm dying to get up to Bay City to do some exploring. I've heard Saginaw has some Victorians as well.

Saginaw does have a lot of beautiful victorians...it also has a lot more boarded up houses and some serious dilipatation, and a bit of a crime problem, unfortunately.

Bay City is a smaller Saginaw without it's negatives. My feeling anyways...it's all relative though.

[danielj72]

Tiger Beer is right, Bay city is a smaller version of Saginaw without many of its issues. Bay City is an underated town, nice waterfront and nicer older homes. Saginaw itself has really decayed in recent years, but its not as bad as some places in this state. The west side of Saginaw still has some very nice areas, and the old homes are really something in that town.

If I had to rank other mi citys excluding Detroit and Grand Rapids it would be like this.

1. Traverse City- Views, cleanliness lots to do
2. Ann Arbor- U of M, clean downtown, lots to do, nice surroundings
3. Midland- Clean, decent economy
4. Bay City-nice waterfront, nice downtown
5.Lansing- Museums, MSU, better than average job availablity for MI
6. Kalamazoo- Nice clean town
7. Saginaw- Too much crime, job problems, but nice old homes in west side
8. Muskegon- Too much crime, dirty but its close to Lake Michigan
9. Flint- Too much crime, depressing, too much like Detroit, on the plus side they have tried to clean the downtown and it shows.