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Old 09-29-2012, 02:48 AM
 
Location: Chicago
6,359 posts, read 8,777,654 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbmsu01 View Post
I do think some of it is publicity related. That being said:

1. Lansing has different demographics than Austin or Madison. Its roots are much more blue-collar, and the blue-collar residents have a lot more influence on policies.

2. I'm not sure it's exactly healthy to be like Austin. In 1950, Austin had a population of 132,459. In 2011, it was estimated to be 820,611, a growth rate of about 520%! Madison has been a bit more reasonable, increasing from 96,056 in 1950 to 236,901 estimated in 2011 (about 147%.) The U.S. has grown about 107% during this period, and Lansing only grew about 24% (from 92,129 in 1950 to an estimated 114,605 in 2010.) But basically, I would say that Austin's growth rate in many ways is just as alarming as the population decline in Detroit, for example. It's extremely high compared to the rest of the country.
if Lansing/East Lansing differ from Austin or Madison, it may be that MSU differs from UT-Austin and UW-Madison. let me clarify: used to differ.

Austin and Madison go back to the old days, the 19th century, when both its universities were founded as the intellectual centers for their state. MSU, founded in the same century, was an agricultural school that generated a different affect on its own community.

but that was then. Today, MSU is a fully scoped university, a school with endless overlap with U-M in how it operates and what it provides. arguably that may mean that what came more naturally in Madison or Austin, L/EL must reach by evolving towards it. Not that there aren't other models. Columbus is no Madison or Austin and nobody is going to call it an ideal college town, but it has used OSU to build its image and to expand economically.
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Old 09-29-2012, 04:46 AM
 
Location: Kittanning
4,692 posts, read 8,998,921 times
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I just don't think Lansing has much appeal. It's not particularly urban, it's not particularly historic, and it's not pretty. All of those parking garages, concrete bunkers, parking lots, and Brutalist modern buildings do nothing to give it charm or a sense of place. As far as scenery goes, it's not the prettiest part of Michigan. It's rather flat. The residential architecture is very modest, nothing special. Suburbanites do not find Lansing sufficiently suburban for them to feel comfortable there, and urban yuppie types do not find it sufficiently urban. I'm not sure who finds Lansing appealing, to be honest. It's one of those places you live because that's where you're from, or that's where you work, not because it had anything special to draw you in.

That said, I like the capital building.
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Old 09-29-2012, 08:23 AM
 
92,311 posts, read 122,573,532 times
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I think that if Downtown Lansing had more development(housing, retail, etc) and connected it by rapid transit bus to Downtown East Lansing and MSU, I think it could transform the area. Where I live is similar, but it is more urban and has more going on in its Downtown. We also have an interstate that splits the city, but there are ongoing talks to tear down a portion of it between Downtown and Syracuse University. I wonder if the L/EL area could do the same with Route 127?

Keep in mind that annexation has helped Austin greatly and the same for Columbus in terms of population growth.
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Old 09-29-2012, 08:26 AM
 
Location: Macao
16,265 posts, read 43,022,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alleghenyangel View Post
I just don't think Lansing has much appeal. It's not particularly urban, it's not particularly historic, and it's not pretty. All of those parking garages, concrete bunkers, parking lots, and Brutalist modern buildings do nothing to give it charm or a sense of place. As far as scenery goes, it's not the prettiest part of Michigan. It's rather flat. The residential architecture is very modest, nothing special. Suburbanites do not find Lansing sufficiently suburban for them to feel comfortable there, and urban yuppie types do not find it sufficiently urban. I'm not sure who finds Lansing appealing, to be honest. It's one of those places you live because that's where you're from, or that's where you work, not because it had anything special to draw you in.

That said, I like the capital building.
That sums up Lansing/East Lansing quite well.
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Somewhere extremely awesome
3,130 posts, read 3,058,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by edsg25 View Post
if Lansing/East Lansing differ from Austin or Madison, it may be that MSU differs from UT-Austin and UW-Madison. let me clarify: used to differ.

Austin and Madison go back to the old days, the 19th century, when both its universities were founded as the intellectual centers for their state. MSU, founded in the same century, was an agricultural school that generated a different affect on its own community.

but that was then. Today, MSU is a fully scoped university, a school with endless overlap with U-M in how it operates and what it provides. arguably that may mean that what came more naturally in Madison or Austin, L/EL must reach by evolving towards it. Not that there aren't other models. Columbus is no Madison or Austin and nobody is going to call it an ideal college town, but it has used OSU to build its image and to expand economically.
I understand what you're saying, but I think that MSU has had a tremendous effect on building Lansing/East Lansing's image. Additionally, places like Austin haven't gotten popular just by the effect of UT-Austin. There's a huge number of knowledge and tech companies in the area that are employing across the board talent. Additionally, there's a draw for new residents to come there not simply based on the availability of high-paying jobs.
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Somewhere extremely awesome
3,130 posts, read 3,058,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alleghenyangel View Post
I just don't think Lansing has much appeal. It's not particularly urban, it's not particularly historic, and it's not pretty. All of those parking garages, concrete bunkers, parking lots, and Brutalist modern buildings do nothing to give it charm or a sense of place. As far as scenery goes, it's not the prettiest part of Michigan. It's rather flat. The residential architecture is very modest, nothing special. Suburbanites do not find Lansing sufficiently suburban for them to feel comfortable there, and urban yuppie types do not find it sufficiently urban. I'm not sure who finds Lansing appealing, to be honest. It's one of those places you live because that's where you're from, or that's where you work, not because it had anything special to draw you in.

That said, I like the capital building.
I think we need to be careful between distinguishing what we want in a city, and how to accentuate the best characteristics a particular city has. Like you said, there's not a lot of historic architecture and that kind of stuff in Lansing. That has never been Lansing's MO. Maybe that will make someone like you who is into that kind of thing rule the area out. You're not going to be able to give Lansing appeal that maybe Pittsburgh has. Maybe you'd like somewhere like Saginaw or Bay City, where there's tons of historic architecture. If you're an extreme urban type, you probably will thrive best in New York, Boston, Chicago, or San Francisco. But outside of scenery (and that's negotiable,) Austin and Madison aren't exactly known for these categories either.

That being said, I do agree that people seem to live in Lansing because they're from there or because they work there. On the other hand, outside of it being boring and cold, I really don't hear that many serious complaints about it either. So I think people need to focus on what types of people would want to live in the Lansing/East Lansing area and how to attract them here.
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Old 09-30-2012, 11:34 AM
 
Location: Somewhere extremely awesome
3,130 posts, read 3,058,310 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ckhthankgod View Post
I think that if Downtown Lansing had more development(housing, retail, etc) and connected it by rapid transit bus to Downtown East Lansing and MSU, I think it could transform the area. Where I live is similar, but it is more urban and has more going on in its Downtown. We also have an interstate that splits the city, but there are ongoing talks to tear down a portion of it between Downtown and Syracuse University. I wonder if the L/EL area could do the same with Route 127?

Keep in mind that annexation has helped Austin greatly and the same for Columbus in terms of population growth.
There's been growth in downtown Lansing lofts; I think there's a multi-year waiting list for occupancy. So there's definitely demand for them. Plus, I think there's a 7-10 year plan or so to put BRT along the Grand River/Michigan Avenue corridor from downtown Lansing through East Lansing and out to the Meridian Mall.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:24 AM
 
Location: Midwest
1,004 posts, read 2,763,135 times
Reputation: 253
Not only is both Madison and Austin larger than Lansing, but Austin has 1+ million more. All three are capitol cities but Madison and Austin downtowns are more populated partly because their state most elite university is just down the block. Lansing and East Lansing share seperate downtowns due to their distances, and MSU is also not considered by public rankings to be the most elite university in the state. Think of Ann Arbor, a much more xompact downtown like Madison in that the students share the same downtown as the permanant residents, also likely to spend more, adding again to the equation of what type of stores you will see.
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Old 10-03-2012, 02:48 AM
 
Location: Macao
16,265 posts, read 43,022,745 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by timeofseasons View Post
Not only is both Madison and Austin larger than Lansing, but Austin has 1+ million more. All three are capitol cities but Madison and Austin downtowns are more populated partly because their state most elite university is just down the block. Lansing and East Lansing share seperate downtowns due to their distances, and MSU is also not considered by public rankings to be the most elite university in the state. Think of Ann Arbor, a much more xompact downtown like Madison in that the students share the same downtown as the permanant residents, also likely to spend more, adding again to the equation of what type of stores you will see.
Austin wasn't always so big though. It became large very recently, solely because of it's status.

MSU (in East Lansing) might not be 'more elite' than UM (in Ann Arbor), but I'm fairly certain that MSU has an even larger student enrollment than UM.
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Old 10-03-2012, 03:19 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
3,119 posts, read 6,573,802 times
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Quote:
There's been growth in downtown Lansing lofts; I think there's a multi-year waiting list for occupancy. So there's definitely demand for them. Plus, I think there's a 7-10 year plan or so to put BRT along the Grand River/Michigan Avenue corridor from downtown Lansing through East Lansing and out to the Meridian Mall.
Downtown Lansing is definitely moving in the right direction, even if it may have more limited potential or a lower ceiling than some other places. It will probably never make waves nationally, but all it needs to do is become a viable alternative for people locally who want something other than rural or suburban living. I think it is moving towards that, even if it is more slowly than some of us would like.
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