[jiffin4java]

LOL! I was NOWHERE NEAR Detroit. Congratulations on being one of the fortunate ones. I'm glad things are working out for you in MI. Those opportunities are few and far between.

[5kingsinvegas]

My husband and I know of at least 15 people who worked at Ford's Wixom plant who lost their job when it closed. ALL of them have since left the state. Some went South, others went West, NONE stayed anywhere near the Mid-West. ALL are now employed and making better money where they moved to. I have 2 more friends who are both teachers who lost their jobs when the schools they work at were closed.... they both just took jobs in North Carolina. I have 2 more friends who lost their job when the plant they worked at closed because all the jobs were shipped oversees to China. They both went back to school and are relocating to Idaho and Texas. I personally lost my job when the school I taught in closed down 2 years ago... it still has not re-opened. We moved to Las Vegas where it is unbelievable how many perks teachers get. I received $2000 simply for signing a 2 year contract. We received a discount on our mortgage, did not have to pay any deposits on utilities and we get a 10% discount on our water and cable. Just because I am a teacher. I have heard countless stories from friends and co-workers about people in Michigan who have lost their job and can't find another that pays anywhere near a living wage and have decided to leave the state.

For anyone to pretend that Michigan is not in BIG trouble is just crazy. You can put your head under a bushel basket for only so long before you have to come out and realize that you are the only one left rooting for a sinking ship. Michigan has nothing to offer compared to the booming states.... I am perfectly happy with becoming a Michigan tourist.... I get to enjoy the parts I like about the state and leave the rest behind when I return to my new "heaven on earth".

[Cato the Elder]

Originally Posted by 5kingsinvegas

My husband and I know of at least 15 people who worked at Ford's Wixom plant who lost their job when it closed. ALL of them have since left the state. Some went South, others went West, NONE stayed anywhere near the Mid-West. ALL are now employed and making better money where they moved to. I have 2 more friends who are both teachers who lost their jobs when the schools they work at were closed.... they both just took jobs in North Carolina. I have 2 more friends who lost their job when the plant they worked at closed because all the jobs were shipped oversees to China. They both went back to school and are relocating to Idaho and Texas. I personally lost my job when the school I taught in closed down 2 years ago... it still has not re-opened. We moved to Las Vegas where it is unbelievable how many perks teachers get. I received $2000 simply for signing a 2 year contract. We received a discount on our mortgage, did not have to pay any deposits on utilities and we get a 10% discount on our water and cable. Just because I am a teacher. I have heard countless stories from friends and co-workers about people in Michigan who have lost their job and can't find another that pays anywhere near a living wage and have decided to leave the state.

For anyone to pretend that Michigan is not in BIG trouble is just crazy. You can put your head under a bushel basket for only so long before you have to come out and realize that you are the only one left rooting for a sinking ship. Michigan has nothing to offer compared to the booming states.... I am perfectly happy with becoming a Michigan tourist.... I get to enjoy the parts I like about the state and leave the rest behind when I return to my new "heaven on earth".

This post cracks me up - it borders on the apocryphal. When do the 4 horsemen ride in? Before or after the sinking ship?

The fact remains that people have always moved around the US looking for better opportunities. It was generally west for decades, but now that the Left Coast is all full, people are filling in the middle - READ: desert. When people left New England for opportunties, did states like Connecticut sink, LOL. No, the established people did and are still doing fine in places like NYC and Boston. If somewhere outside of MI has better opportunities for certain groups, like teachers, great! Why the need to get on the soapbox and preach Michigeddon? Enjoy your life in LV! Perhaps for whatever reason you need to make yourself feel better that you were the minority, yes MINORITY, that couldn't make it in MI? When half the population leaves the state, then I'll start listening to your diatribes. But until then, you still have millions of people who have to leave while at the same time offsetting those who are entering!!! When people need to provide incentives for you to do something, there is usually reason they need to offset something...

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

This post cracks me up - it borders on the apocryphal. When do the 4 horsemen ride in? Before or after the sinking ship?

The fact remains that people have always moved around the US looking for better opportunities. It was generally west for decades, but now that the Left Coast is all full, people are filling in the middle - READ: desert. When people left New England for opportunties, did states like Connecticut sink, LOL. No, the established people did and are still doing fine in places like NYC and Boston. If somewhere outside of MI has better opportunities for certain groups, like teachers, great! Why the need to get on the soapbox and preach Michigeddon? Enjoy your life in LV! Perhaps for whatever reason you need to make yourself feel better that you were the minority, yes MINORITY, that couldn't make it in MI? When half the population leaves the state, then I'll start listening to your diatribes. But until then, you still have millions of people who have to leave while at the same time offsetting those who are entering!!! When people need to provide incentives for you to do something, there is usually reason they need to offset something...

Thank you Cato. I was going to say the same thing.

And 5kings, as I said to Mihome, YOU are the one with your head under a bushel basket if you think Vegas' growth is sustainable. If things are so great there, why has Nevada lead the nation in foreclosures for the last nine months? Michigan being in the top 10 is understandable, by why is Vegas crashing like a derailed bullet train? One in every 60 households in Vegas are in foreclosure, which is 3 times the rate of Michigan.

In Business Las Vegas (http://www.inbusinesslasvegas.com/2007/10/26/featire1.html - broken link)

You might be doing alright, but you may want to ask your neighbors how they are doing (if their home hasn't been repossessed yet).

[Br1234]

Originally Posted by magellan

If things are so great there, why has Nevada lead the nation in foreclosures for the last nine months? Michigan being in the top 10 is understandable, by why is Vegas crashing like a derailed bullet train? One in every 60 households in Vegas are in foreclosure, which is 3 times the rate of Michigan.


You might be doing alright, but you may want to ask your neighbors how they are doing (if their home hasn't been repossessed yet).

Sorry man, but you are way off on this NV foreclosure thing. People are losing their homes because their ARM is reseting at a higher rate than they can afford. The original mortgage payment probably didn't even cover the interest, most flippers did not care because they speculated the growth in value will exceed the growth of their principal. If you bought a home using a conventional mortgage that you can afford and you bought a home to live in (not flip) you are and will continue to be fine. So you can't sell your home tomorrow for what you paid a couple years ago (I know that feeling, try 6 years and still not coming out even). In 5-10 years Nevadan's will hardly remember 07'-08'

Someone in NV who has a good job but loses their home to foreclosure, will not automatically abandon the state. Sure home prices will drop but the overall economy will do fine.

I know you love MI but come on.http://www.rivetbangers.com/cgi-php/forums/images/smiles/smash.gif (broken link)

[Cato the Elder]

Originally Posted by Br1234

Sorry man, but you are way off on this NV foreclosure thing. People are losing their homes because their ARM is reseting at a higher rate than they can afford. The original mortgage payment probably didn't even cover the interest, most flippers did not care because they speculated the growth in value will exceed the growth of their principal. If you bought a home using a conventional mortgage that you can afford and you bought a home to live in (not flip) you are and will continue to be fine. So you can't sell your home tomorrow for what you paid a couple years ago (I know that feeling, try 6 years and still not coming out even). In 5-10 years Nevadan's will hardly remember 07'-08'

Someone in NV who has a good job but loses their home to foreclosure, will not automatically abandon the state. Sure home prices will drop but the overall economy will do fine.

I know you love MI but come on.http://www.rivetbangers.com/cgi-php/forums/images/smiles/smash.gif (broken link)

Huh? Talk about a double standard. NV has more foreclosures but it will come out smelling like roses but MI will sink like a ship? Yeah, THAT makes sense.

[baystater]

Originally Posted by Cato the Elder

Huh? Talk about a double standard. NV has more foreclosures but it will come out smelling like roses but MI will sink like a ship? Yeah, THAT makes sense.

Well Cato. At least Michigan has the Great Lakes to sink in. Nevada???? I guess it could be covered by sand like the Sphinx was.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by Br1234

Sorry man, but you are way off on this NV foreclosure thing. People are losing their homes because their ARM is reseting at a higher rate than they can afford. The original mortgage payment probably didn't even cover the interest, most flippers did not care because they speculated the growth in value will exceed the growth of their principal. If you bought a home using a conventional mortgage that you can afford and you bought a home to live in (not flip) you are and will continue to be fine. So you can't sell your home tomorrow for what you paid a couple years ago (I know that feeling, try 6 years and still not coming out even). In 5-10 years Nevadan's will hardly remember 07'-08'

Someone in NV who has a good job but loses their home to foreclosure, will not automatically abandon the state. Sure home prices will drop but the overall economy will do fine.

I know you love MI but come on.http://www.rivetbangers.com/cgi-php/forums/images/smiles/smash.gif (broken link)

I'm wondering if you have actually been to Las Vegas, outside the strip area. Even suburban areas that were built up 20 years ago now look like Compton, LA. The place is not sustainable, especially when 3/4's of the growth depends on more growth (construction, real estate and land development), and most of the other jobs being created are hospitality level service jobs.

What happens when Vegas runs out of land to build on? As they will soon because the metro area is surrounded by un-buildable government-owned land?

But your post about speculators going into foreclosures I can agree with. Which in essence people grossly overestimated the desirability and affordability of that area. Precisely my point.

But I don't want to take this topic further off into the ditch it started off in. I wouldn't want to stand in the way of the trolls with an agenda.

[M TYPE X]

People from Metro Detroit think, oh, suburbs = safe, clean, convenient, affordable, accessible, etc

Then, they go to other metro areas in the country and find it it's not always so easy!

[Cliffie]

Personally, I think the Great Lakes State with its beautiful setting, tourist opportunities, thousands of people eager for work, several different promising industry bases (NOT the Big Three) as well as some great farmland has MUCH more potential than a neon-blinking oasis in the middle of a vast desert, in an otherwise almost-uninhabited, unfarmable state, ruled without pity by Wayne Newton.