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Yeah, problem is no one is hiring teachers in Michigan!!! They are being recruited like crazy to other states, my SIL included. No one can find work here as a teacher. Highest paid...maybe I guess...but does't count worth anything if you can't get work doing it!
Before we start talking about how great it is to be a teacher in Michigan, how about we look at what its like in some of the poorer districts? There is huge variation between counties and different schools. My sister teaches in Flint and has been laid off 4 times and makes $35,000 a year when she isnt on unemployment.
Michigan is not a place to teach or live right now. Every new teacher (like myself) needs to research where they move to and see if the school district is good and housing costs and move out of Michigan for your three plus years of experience you need.
I make a list of all the schools that are going to the different job fairs in Michigan and then research each school in the states I would like to live. I go to Greatschools.net and look up their rating, test scores, and school population. I also compare this with my own district that I student taught in. Then I go to a general apartment site and look up cost of an aparment that I want. This at least gives me a general idea if it is expensive or not.
Basically, do the research and put time into where you want to start your career. Also, get an endorsement that you know is in demand and you can teach. I was all Social studies and went for a biology endorsement. I am rare and have been given interviews in MI and all over the nation due to my split endorsement and my science endorsement. I have many Social Studies only friends that cannot find anything.
Michigan is not a place to teach or live right now. Every new teacher (like myself) needs to research where they move to and see if the school district is good and housing costs and move out of Michigan for your three plus years of experience you need.
I make a list of all the schools that are going to the different job fairs in Michigan and then research each school in the states I would like to live. I go to Greatschools.net and look up their rating, test scores, and school population. I also compare this with my own district that I student taught in. Then I go to a general apartment site and look up cost of an aparment that I want. This at least gives me a general idea if it is expensive or not.
Basically, do the research and put time into where you want to start your career. Also, get an endorsement that you know is in demand and you can teach. I was all Social studies and went for a biology endorsement. I am rare and have been given interviews in MI and all over the nation due to my split endorsement and my science endorsement. I have many Social Studies only friends that cannot find anything.
You sound like me. Before I moved out of state, I had multiple web browsers open. One with the opening, mapquest place of the area, an apartment website, greatschools.net, travelocity with airfare prices home, the actual school's website, etc.... It is important to make an informed decision.
Couple of comments I need to make here. First of all, it is *very* difficult to get a teaching job in Michigan, or at least it was in 2006. I sent out 70 resumes in Michigan, got 5 calls for interviews (did 3 of the interviews -- the other two came after I had accepted an offer in Illinois), and no offers in Michigan. I sent out 2 resumes in Illinois, one of which yielded an interview and no offer but a referral, which did yield an offer.
Granted, the cost of living is higher here, although not bad compared to most of Chicagoland. Let me make a couple of observations, though, regarding what teachers really do.
I can't speak for everyone, mind you. My contract requires me to work 183 days, from 7:30 to 2:40, with one 40 minute planning period and one 40 minute lunch per day. Yeah right . What a contract requires and what actually happens are two different things. Just to respond to the comments about 2 months off and all, I want to let you know, at least for me, what the job is really about. Don't take this as me complaining, though, because I love my job, and there is nothing I would rather be doing. This is simply a response to those who bash teachers.
I am a pretty normal teacher. I am never the first one there, and never the last one to leave. I take home about the same amount of work as my coworkers. So let's use me as an example and draw a comparison.
Your average person at an average job probably doesn't take a lot of work home, and probably doesn't work too late all that often. Some professions do, but many don't. So they get to work at 8 and leave at 5. During that time, they probably have a half-hour lunch which is spent relaxing and eating, and 2 15 minute breaks, also spent relaxing. Let's say, though, for the sake of fairness, that working late averages out to a half-hour a day. Maybe an hour here, 15 minutes there ... a half hour may be a good average. So that's 9.5 hours at work, 8.5 of which are spent working.
I have read that the average person gets 18 vacation days a year. I believe that 5 to 7 paid holidays is fairly normal, so we'll say 6. I won't count personal or sick days, as teachers have those available too -- some take them, and some (including me) don't.
So if we take 260 work days a year and subtract vacation and holidays, we have 236 work days a year. At 8.5 hours on the average, that's 2006 hours.
Personally, I have 183 contract days. These span about 36 teaching weeks.
I get to work at 7 in the morning, and I begin setting everything up for the day, doing any paperwork I need to, etc., and getting ready to begin. I dont' take a break, other than an occasional restroom break, until my lunch. I usually don't have a during-the-day planning period, but rather the few minutes I have at the beginning and end of the day are referred to as "planning time," so the actual planning, entering of grades, parent communications, etc., if it needs to be done during the day, gets done on my lunch hour. I usually spend about 15 minutes eating and the rest of the time working. Typically, I'll leave between 4 and 4:30, but I usually only take work home on the weekends. So if we say 7 to 4:15, less a 15 minute break to eat, I literally work about 10 hours a day during the school week. True, this is not bad at all. I have to say, though, 6 hours with kids is more draining than 12 hours on a car sales floor (that's what I did before teaching). So I havfe 10 hours a day for 183 days -- that's 1830 hours. On a typical weekend, I'll spend about 3 hours planning, finding activities, grading, etc. With 36 teaching weeks, that's 108 hours, bringing the total to 1938 hours. Four times a year, I am required to supervise evening activities. Because I am a music teacher, my concerts cover this requirement, which means I am usually spending 4 to 5 hours on these evenings. If we figure 16 hours, that's 1954.
I know, the 2006 number might be low for some "normal" professions -- I believe it is likely a good average, though. And the 1954 for me is a very realistic number. So we are talking about a difference of only 52 hours in a year, as far as actual hours worked.
Don't get me wrong, I love my job, and I wouldn't trade it for anything. Last summer I taught summer school because, to me, 2 months is too long to have off at once.
And I never complain about my income except when I'm paying my student loan bill (which is almost as much as my car payment, and that's on a 30-year plan!). But it gets to me when people assume that teaching is a cake job. It's not. It is a GREAT job, however. But not for the lazy.
I can tell you are not a teacher, nor could ever be one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Br1234
Where I went to high school teachers only tought (if you want to call it that) 5 out of the 6 hour school day. They were givin one for "planning".
Some teachers would show up to class, take attendance, say: read chapter X and leave for the rest of the class. One would play Solitaire on his computer ALL DAY.
John Stossel did a whole 20/20 on public education about a year ago. It was great. Eye opening to some but for me it was old news.
I seen a couple posts where people (certified teachers) complained that there were not enough teaching jobs, SUPPLY AND DEMAND BABY. Seems to me they could be paid less. A masters or extra cert. does not a good teacher make.
Some teachers make way more than originally posted, science, I.A. and spec. ed. come to mind at about $80K/9 months to over $90K/9 months.
I agree with the poster who brought up bene's, teachers have the best and they have 3 months vacation.
Teachers conference, please, you guys get a day and a half off to cover that. Cry me a river.
Not all my teachers were bad but there were a lot of them and I would add that every one of them should have been paid less
I would also add that money doesn't attract the best teachers. It attracts people that want more money, nothing else. If its true that you guys don't do it for the money, why are you asking for $100K, or more? If you want to make a lot of money go into business.
I would LOVE to see you do 5 presentations a day at your job to 20-30 people who would really rather be doing something else. You must do these presentations in a fun and interesting way or the people will tune you out and commence to distract and annoy anyone within reach until nobody is paying attention. It is in your best interest to do your best because your people will have one chance to show that they understand all of your presentations. If your people do not show that they understand the information then they will not get promoted. If they do not get promoted then it reflects directly on YOU and YOUR abilities. Your pay and job security may also be affected by how these people do on their one-shot test. (In Michigan we call it the MEAP) All of your presentations have to take into consideration that all 20-30 of your people are at different reading levels, processing speeds, motivation levels, and maturity levels. All of your people have different personalities and some would rather throw themselves under a bus then give you the satisfaction of teaching them something. However, you are still held responsible for them knowing all of the information in your presentations. Don't forget that some of your people have attention issues so you have to break your presentations up enough to keep them in tune but not too much because then they loose focus on what they are supposed to be doing. You will need to pull some of your people aside and reteach them the information because they process information a little slower and need exta exposure to get it. You are also responsible for these students understanding all of your presentations in the same amount of time as everyone else. You must also know what all of your people need emotionally from you while they are away from their family (they spend more time with you than they do with their family most days). Do you still think you could do it every day without a "planning" period? [As far as making $80-$90k, please let me know what district that is because I will pack my bags this summer. I make $34,680 a year. This is $680 more than I made last year. That is about $20 every 2 weeks on my check, how much more do you think I am paying in gas this year compared to last? I do have health benefits for myself and my family. However, our co-pay was raised to $20 per doc visit and $20 on perscriptions. I have a child whose medication is $30 per month because there isn't a generic. My other child's medications can range from$20-$120 per month depending on how he is doing with his allergies. I also have medication that I have to take that is $20 per month. So I still fork out the dough for health care.] Now, lets take a look at your 3 month vacation. Your people get out of school on June 6th. You have to stay another week at work to pack up your room and attend meetings about how, why, and when you are doing your "presentations". You get about 6 weeks off, if your lucky, then you have to go back for more meetings. In those 6 weeks you may have to get a summer job to suppliment your income because you only make $35K a year. Then you have to put in about 10 hours a day for a week or two to get ready for another year of presentations. This does not take into consideration the hours and hours of time you put in correcting things at home and after work, buying things out of your own pocket so you can do the presentations or in hopes that you can do them better. Don't forget that 2-4 times a year you have to meet with the family members of your people. (You know those teacher conferences you reference) When you talk with the families you must have evidence of what they have learned or not learned so you can justify why "Billy" got an F when he was absent 10 times that semester or has only turned in on assignment all semester. You must have a very good idea about what strenghts they have and what areas they need help in. You must also have ideas for the family to do to help the people improve in the area that they are struggling in. You must be able to be calm and confident even if the family members verbally attack you and blame you for everything out of your control and want to know what you are going to do to make their family member get up to an acceptable level inspite of their multiple absences, lack of motivation, and low achievement level. Repeat this meeting 20-30 times until 8:00 at night after meeting with your people for a half or whole day since 7:30 in the morning and see if you don't need a day to recover. Teachers are not in it for the money but they do need to live and provide for their children just like you do. We have house payments and car payment too. I think the people who are entrusted with your children getting the knowledge they need to be successful should be able to live in a great house and provide for their families. Are you anxious for winter break to be over because your kids are driving you nuts or do you not deal with them all day? Are you ready to go back to work on Monday after being with your kids all weekend every weekend all summer? Teachers are with your kids and 20-30 other kids 7 or so hours a day. How long are you with your kids after you get home? Advanced degrees do not make a good teacher but good teachers always want to learn so they get advanced degrees. Not to mention in Michigan you almost have to get one because you are required to get 18 credit hours from a university to keep your teaching certificate. You must pay for these credits yourself. So take that out of your teaching salary. Are you required to pay for training for your job? Will you loose your job if you don't fork over the money. So on top of doing your presentations to your people you must go to college classes twice a week for 3 hours a day and pay for it. Then you must do the readings and 20 page research papers to meet the requirements of the class. So add that onto your job time since it is required to keep your job. How many hours a week are you working now, 50-55? You must also be on committes that examine the job you and your co-workers are doing to progress your people toward their promotion and where you need to do a better job regardless of what kind of people you get. So add another couple of hours a month into your work time, unless you have to do a report then you better make it an even 10 hrs extra. I think that before you open your mouth (or touch your keyboard) to comment on a teacher's salary you need to do some research on what a teacher really does all day and how much extra time (and money) most of us put in. Just because your kids are in school 6 hours a day doesn't mean the teacher's day ends there. I hope that this has given you a new outlook on your clearly uninformed opinion. Being a very intellegent person, if I was in it for the money I would have jumped ship and went to another profession long ago. I enjoy working with kids and progressing their learning and understanding. It is a very difficult job and I would challenge you to take even 15 kids to the zoo (or anywhere) and test them on it when you are done. How good did you do teaching them? Was it easy to keep their attention? Did all of them learn? Should we fire you as a parent if they don't do well? Anyway, teachers need enough money to live comfortably and not struggle to survive. Teachers make all other professions and should not be paid less than most of them.
Last edited by Iteachcuzucant; 05-15-2008 at 10:02 PM..
I would LOVE to see you do 5 presentations a day at your job to 20-30 people who would really rather be doing something else. You must do these presentations in a fun and interesting way or the people will tune you out and commence to distract and annoy anyone within reach until nobody is paying attention. It is in your best interest to do your best because your people will have one chance to show that they understand all of your presentations. If your people do not show that they understand the information then they will not get promoted. If they do not get promoted then it reflects directly on YOU and YOUR abilities. Your pay and job security may also be affected by how these people do on their one-shot test. (In Michigan we call it the MEAP) All of your presentations have to take into consideration that all 20-30 of your people are at different reading levels, processing speeds, motivation levels, and maturity levels. All of your people have different personalities and some would rather throw themselves under a bus then give you the satisfaction of teaching them something. However, you are still held responsible for them knowing all of the information in your presentations. Don't forget that some of your people have attention issues so you have to break your presentations up enough to keep them in tune but not too much because then they loose focus on what they are supposed to be doing. You will need to pull some of your people aside and reteach them the information because they process information a little slower and need exta exposure to get it. You are also responsible for these students understanding all of your presentations in the same amount of time as everyone else. You must also know what all of your people need emotionally from you while they are away from their family (they spend more time with you than they do with their family most days). Do you still think you could do it every day without a "planning" period? [As far as making $80-$90k, please let me know what district that is because I will pack my bags this summer. I make $34,680 a year. This is $680 more than I made last year. That is about $20 every 2 weeks on my check, how much more do you think I am paying in gas this year compared to last? I do have health benefits for myself and my family. However, our co-pay was raised to $20 per doc visit and $20 on perscriptions. I have a child whose medication is $30 per month because there isn't a generic. My other child's medications can range from$20-$120 per month depending on how he is doing with his allergies. I also have medication that I have to take that is $20 per month. So I still fork out the dough for health care.] Now, lets take a look at your 3 month vacation. Your people get out of school on June 6th. You have to stay another week at work to pack up your room and attend meetings about how, why, and when you are doing your "presentations". You get about 6 weeks off, if your lucky, then you have to go back for more meetings. In those 6 weeks you may have to get a summer job to suppliment your income because you only make $35K a year. Then you have to put in about 10 hours a day for a week or two to get ready for another year of presentations. This does not take into consideration the hours and hours of time you put in correcting things at home and after work, buying things out of your own pocket so you can do the presentations or in hopes that you can do them better. Don't forget that 2-4 times a year you have to meet with the family members of your people. (You know those teacher conferences you reference) When you talk with the families you must have evidence of what they have learned or not learned so you can justify why "Billy" got an F when he was absent 10 times that semester or has only turned in on assignment all semester. You must have a very good idea about what strenghts they have and what areas they need help in. You must also have ideas for the family to do to help the people improve in the area that they are struggling in. You must be able to be calm and confident even if the family members verbally attack you and blame you for everything out of your control and want to know what you are going to do to make their family member get up to an acceptable level inspite of their multiple absences, lack of motivation, and low achievement level. Repeat this meeting 20-30 times until 8:00 at night after meeting with your people for a half or whole day since 7:30 in the morning and see if you don't need a day to recover. Teachers are not in it for the money but they do need to live and provide for their children just like you do. We have house payments and car payment too. I think the people who are entrusted with your children getting the knowledge they need to be successful should be able to live in a great house and provide for their families. Are you anxious for winter break to be over because your kids are driving you nuts or do you not deal with them all day? Are you ready to go back to work on Monday after being with your kids all weekend every weekend all summer? Teachers are with your kids and 20-30 other kids 7 or so hours a day. How long are you with your kids after you get home? Advanced degrees do not make a good teacher but good teachers always want to learn so they get advanced degrees. Not to mention in Michigan you almost have to get one because you are required to get 18 credit hours from a university to keep your teaching certificate. You must pay for these credits yourself. So take that out of your teaching salary. Are you required to pay for training for your job? Will you loose your job if you don't fork over the money. So on top of doing your presentations to your people you must go to college classes twice a week for 3 hours a day and pay for it. Then you must do the readings and 20 page research papers to meet the requirements of the class. So add that onto your job time since it is required to keep your job. How many hours a week are you working now, 50-55? You must also be on committes that examine the job you and your co-workers are doing to progress your people toward their promotion and where you need to do a better job regardless of what kind of people you get. So add another couple of hours a month into your work time, unless you have to do a report then you better make it an even 10 hrs extra. I think that before you open your mouth (or touch your keyboard) to comment on a teacher's salary you need to do some research on what a teacher really does all day and how much extra time (and money) most of us put in. Just because your kids are in school 6 hours a day doesn't mean the teacher's day ends there. I hope that this has given you a new outlook on your clearly uninformed opinion. Being a very intellegent person, if I was in it for the money I would have jumped ship and went to another profession long ago. I enjoy working with kids and progressing their learning and understanding. It is a very difficult job and I would challenge you to take even 15 kids to the zoo (or anywhere) and test them on it when you are done. How good did you do teaching them? Was it easy to keep their attention? Did all of them learn? Should we fire you as a parent if they don't do well? Anyway, teachers need enough money to live comfortably and not struggle to survive. Teachers make all other professions and should not be paid less than most of them.
Not to be rude, but you need to split your post into paragraphs. I don't even want to attempt to read it as is.
Because our nation doesn't have a shortage of people with college degrees nor a shortage of people with advanced degrees. The cream still rises to the top and we're still producing enough college-educated people to fill what knowledge-based jobs the nation has. From an economic standpoint, there really isn't a huge problem. (Contrary to popular belief, your waitress doesn't need to have an understanding of linear algebra, janitors don't need to know about quantum mechanics, and truck drivers don't need to be knowledgeable about Shakespeare.)
Do you really think that a good teacher can make an appreciable difference? Smart kids are going to be smart and dumb kids are going to be dumb and it's difficult to improve a student's G-factor (general intelligence factor or IQ). Also, the apple doesn't always fall far from the tree and many children suffer from non-ideal family situations. How is a teacher going to be able to overcome a child's being raised by parents who have IQs in the low 80's? Is it possible that throwing more and more money at the problem , at least in the form of teacher compensation, may not be the solution? So we should just track people from kindergarten by their SES (socio-economic status) and the kids with smart parents go to school and the others work in the fields? I don't understand your thinking. Teachers make exactly that difference in kids lives EVERY DAY. Children who live with violence learn that you don't solve things that way, you use your brain not your fist. We teach that explicitly every day in every grade in every school. Children whose family life is crap learn that someone cares about them just because they are in existance. Teachers teach that in addition to math and reading. We teach children to strive to be better, their best, not what others think they are or what their family is.
You really think so? What do you think makes them bad and how could their performance improve?
To what extent does that hold true? I agree that it's true as a broad general principle, but I fear that many people accept that notion as a dogmatic absolute and then want to take it to extremes.
When a teacher makes a mistake, students learn that the Magna Carta was signed in 1776 and they can correct their mistaken knowledge later. However, when a doctor makes a mistake, someone can die or suffer irreversible physical damage.
Who do you think taught that doctor to pay attention to detail? A teacher!
"Do you really think that a good teacher can make an appreciable difference? Smart kids are going to be smart and dumb kids are going to be dumb and it's difficult to improve a student's G-factor (general intelligence factor or IQ). Also, the apple doesn't always fall far from the tree and many children suffer from non-ideal family situations. How is a teacher going to be able to overcome a child's being raised by parents who have IQs in the low 80's? Is it possible that throwing more and more money at the problem , at least in the form of teacher compensation, may not be the solution?"
Sure did with me. Part way into high school I had about a 1.7 GPA, no motivation, no direction, not a reall bright looking future. Most of my teachers did not care, or did not know how to reach me. Then I encountereed a good teacher. As a result, I got all A's, in my last three or four semesters, graduated with a 3.3, went to college and graduated with a 3.6 went on to graduate from U-M law school (then in the top 3). Yes a good teacher can make all the difference in the world.
How you identify good teachers I have no idea, but it is not hard to identify the bad ones.
I would LOVE to see you do 5 presentations a day at your job to 20-30 people who would really rather be doing something else. You must do these presentations in a fun and interesting way or the people will tune you out and commence to distract and annoy anyone within reach until nobody is paying attention. It is in your best interest to do your best because your people will have one chance to show that they understand all of your presentations. If your people do not show that they understand the information then they will not get promoted. If they do not get promoted then it reflects directly on YOU and YOUR abilities. Your pay and job security may also be affected by how these people do on their one-shot test. (In Michigan we call it the MEAP) All of your presentations have to take into consideration that all 20-30 of your people are at different reading levels, processing speeds, motivation levels, and maturity levels. All of your people have different personalities and some would rather throw themselves under a bus then give you the satisfaction of teaching them something. However, you are still held responsible for them knowing all of the information in your presentations. Don't forget that some of your people have attention issues so you have to break your presentations up enough to keep them in tune but not too much because then they loose focus on what they are supposed to be doing. You will need to pull some of your people aside and reteach them the information because they process information a little slower and need exta exposure to get it. You are also responsible for these students understanding all of your presentations in the same amount of time as everyone else. You must also know what all of your people need emotionally from you while they are away from their family (they spend more time with you than they do with their family most days). Do you still think you could do it every day without a "planning" period? [As far as making $80-$90k, please let me know what district that is because I will pack my bags this summer. I make $34,680 a year. This is $680 more than I made last year. That is about $20 every 2 weeks on my check, how much more do you think I am paying in gas this year compared to last? I do have health benefits for myself and my family. However, our co-pay was raised to $20 per doc visit and $20 on perscriptions. I have a child whose medication is $30 per month because there isn't a generic. My other child's medications can range from$20-$120 per month depending on how he is doing with his allergies. I also have medication that I have to take that is $20 per month. So I still fork out the dough for health care.] Now, lets take a look at your 3 month vacation. Your people get out of school on June 6th. You have to stay another week at work to pack up your room and attend meetings about how, why, and when you are doing your "presentations". You get about 6 weeks off, if your lucky, then you have to go back for more meetings. In those 6 weeks you may have to get a summer job to suppliment your income because you only make $35K a year. Then you have to put in about 10 hours a day for a week or two to get ready for another year of presentations. This does not take into consideration the hours and hours of time you put in correcting things at home and after work, buying things out of your own pocket so you can do the presentations or in hopes that you can do them better. Don't forget that 2-4 times a year you have to meet with the family members of your people. (You know those teacher conferences you reference) When you talk with the families you must have evidence of what they have learned or not learned so you can justify why "Billy" got an F when he was absent 10 times that semester or has only turned in on assignment all semester. You must have a very good idea about what strenghts they have and what areas they need help in. You must also have ideas for the family to do to help the people improve in the area that they are struggling in. You must be able to be calm and confident even if the family members verbally attack you and blame you for everything out of your control and want to know what you are going to do to make their family member get up to an acceptable level inspite of their multiple absences, lack of motivation, and low achievement level. Repeat this meeting 20-30 times until 8:00 at night after meeting with your people for a half or whole day since 7:30 in the morning and see if you don't need a day to recover. Teachers are not in it for the money but they do need to live and provide for their children just like you do. We have house payments and car payment too. I think the people who are entrusted with your children getting the knowledge they need to be successful should be able to live in a great house and provide for their families. Are you anxious for winter break to be over because your kids are driving you nuts or do you not deal with them all day? Are you ready to go back to work on Monday after being with your kids all weekend every weekend all summer? Teachers are with your kids and 20-30 other kids 7 or so hours a day. How long are you with your kids after you get home? Advanced degrees do not make a good teacher but good teachers always want to learn so they get advanced degrees. Not to mention in Michigan you almost have to get one because you are required to get 18 credit hours from a university to keep your teaching certificate. You must pay for these credits yourself. So take that out of your teaching salary. Are you required to pay for training for your job? Will you loose your job if you don't fork over the money. So on top of doing your presentations to your people you must go to college classes twice a week for 3 hours a day and pay for it. Then you must do the readings and 20 page research papers to meet the requirements of the class. So add that onto your job time since it is required to keep your job. How many hours a week are you working now, 50-55? You must also be on committes that examine the job you and your co-workers are doing to progress your people toward their promotion and where you need to do a better job regardless of what kind of people you get. So add another couple of hours a month into your work time, unless you have to do a report then you better make it an even 10 hrs extra. I think that before you open your mouth (or touch your keyboard) to comment on a teacher's salary you need to do some research on what a teacher really does all day and how much extra time (and money) most of us put in. Just because your kids are in school 6 hours a day doesn't mean the teacher's day ends there. I hope that this has given you a new outlook on your clearly uninformed opinion. Being a very intellegent person, if I was in it for the money I would have jumped ship and went to another profession long ago. I enjoy working with kids and progressing their learning and understanding. It is a very difficult job and I would challenge you to take even 15 kids to the zoo (or anywhere) and test them on it when you are done. How good did you do teaching them? Was it easy to keep their attention? Did all of them learn? Should we fire you as a parent if they don't do well? Anyway, teachers need enough money to live comfortably and not struggle to survive. Teachers make all other professions and should not be paid less than most of them.
I appreciate good teachers as much as anyone but I gotta repeat it again: "Difficult" jobs that don't pay much (including benefits), as you are insinuating, should not be difficult to get but we are well aware that there are very FEW teaching jobs available in Michigan.
I don't need to walk in your shoes for 5 minutes to know that I am not gifted to do what you do. I also don't need to walk in your shoes for 5 minutes to realize that we don't need to raise compensation in your field to attract others to fill the position if you left. That is the market telling all of us that that position pays enough. And, I'm guessing by your passion that you're a "good" teacher that perhaps SHOULD earn more. However, with unions/tenure, the market tends to be skewed because we can't weed out the bad teachers and create more efficiency (pay them less in order to pay you more).
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. What a contract requires and what actually happens are two different things. Just to respond to the comments about 2 months off and all, I want to let you know, at least for me, what the job is really about. Don't take this as me complaining, though, because I love my job, and there is nothing I would rather be doing. This is simply a response to those who bash teachers.
I can tell you are not a teacher, nor could ever be one.
I would LOVE to see you do 5 presentations a day at your job to 20-30 people who would really rather be doing something else. You must do these presentations in a fun and interesting way or the people will tune you out and commence to distract and annoy anyone within reach until nobody is paying attention. It is in your best interest to do your best because your people will have one chance to show that they understand all of your presentations. If your people do not show that they understand the information then they will not get promoted. If they do not get promoted then it reflects directly on YOU and YOUR abilities. Your pay and job security may also be affected by how these people do on their one-shot test. (In Michigan we call it the MEAP) All of your presentations have to take into consideration that all 20-30 of your people are at different reading levels, processing speeds, motivation levels, and maturity levels. All of your people have different personalities and some would rather throw themselves under a bus then give you the satisfaction of teaching them something. However, you are still held responsible for them knowing all of the information in your presentations. Don't forget that some of your people have attention issues so you have to break your presentations up enough to keep them in tune but not too much because then they loose focus on what they are supposed to be doing. You will need to pull some of your people aside and reteach them the information because they process information a little slower and need exta exposure to get it. You are also responsible for these students understanding all of your presentations in the same amount of time as everyone else. You must also know what all of your people need emotionally from you while they are away from their family (they spend more time with you than they do with their family most days). Do you still think you could do it every day without a "planning" period? [As far as making $80-$90k, please let me know what district that is because I will pack my bags this summer. I make $34,680 a year. This is $680 more than I made last year. That is about $20 every 2 weeks on my check, how much more do you think I am paying in gas this year compared to last? I do have health benefits for myself and my family. However, our co-pay was raised to $20 per doc visit and $20 on perscriptions. I have a child whose medication is $30 per month because there isn't a generic. My other child's medications can range from$20-$120 per month depending on how he is doing with his allergies. I also have medication that I have to take that is $20 per month. So I still fork out the dough for health care.] Now, lets take a look at your 3 month vacation. Your people get out of school on June 6th. You have to stay another week at work to pack up your room and attend meetings about how, why, and when you are doing your "presentations". You get about 6 weeks off, if your lucky, then you have to go back for more meetings. In those 6 weeks you may have to get a summer job to suppliment your income because you only make $35K a year. Then you have to put in about 10 hours a day for a week or two to get ready for another year of presentations. This does not take into consideration the hours and hours of time you put in correcting things at home and after work, buying things out of your own pocket so you can do the presentations or in hopes that you can do them better. Don't forget that 2-4 times a year you have to meet with the family members of your people. (You know those teacher conferences you reference) When you talk with the families you must have evidence of what they have learned or not learned so you can justify why "Billy" got an F when he was absent 10 times that semester or has only turned in on assignment all semester. You must have a very good idea about what strenghts they have and what areas they need help in. You must also have ideas for the family to do to help the people improve in the area that they are struggling in. You must be able to be calm and confident even if the family members verbally attack you and blame you for everything out of your control and want to know what you are going to do to make their family member get up to an acceptable level inspite of their multiple absences, lack of motivation, and low achievement level. Repeat this meeting 20-30 times until 8:00 at night after meeting with your people for a half or whole day since 7:30 in the morning and see if you don't need a day to recover. Teachers are not in it for the money but they do need to live and provide for their children just like you do. We have house payments and car payment too. I think the people who are entrusted with your children getting the knowledge they need to be successful should be able to live in a great house and provide for their families. Are you anxious for winter break to be over because your kids are driving you nuts or do you not deal with them all day? Are you ready to go back to work on Monday after being with your kids all weekend every weekend all summer? Teachers are with your kids and 20-30 other kids 7 or so hours a day. How long are you with your kids after you get home? Advanced degrees do not make a good teacher but good teachers always want to learn so they get advanced degrees. Not to mention in Michigan you almost have to get one because you are required to get 18 credit hours from a university to keep your teaching certificate. You must pay for these credits yourself. So take that out of your teaching salary. Are you required to pay for training for your job? Will you loose your job if you don't fork over the money. So on top of doing your presentations to your people you must go to college classes twice a week for 3 hours a day and pay for it. Then you must do the readings and 20 page research papers to meet the requirements of the class. So add that onto your job time since it is required to keep your job. How many hours a week are you working now, 50-55? You must also be on committes that examine the job you and your co-workers are doing to progress your people toward their promotion and where you need to do a better job regardless of what kind of people you get. So add another couple of hours a month into your work time, unless you have to do a report then you better make it an even 10 hrs extra. I think that before you open your mouth (or touch your keyboard) to comment on a teacher's salary you need to do some research on what a teacher really does all day and how much extra time (and money) most of us put in. Just because your kids are in school 6 hours a day doesn't mean the teacher's day ends there. I hope that this has given you a new outlook on your clearly uninformed opinion. Being a very intellegent person, if I was in it for the money I would have jumped ship and went to another profession long ago. I enjoy working with kids and progressing their learning and understanding. It is a very difficult job and I would challenge you to take even 15 kids to the zoo (or anywhere) and test them on it when you are done. How good did you do teaching them? Was it easy to keep their attention? Did all of them learn? Should we fire you as a parent if they don't do well? Anyway, teachers need enough money to live comfortably and not struggle to survive. Teachers make all other professions and should not be paid less than most of them.
So we should just track people from kindergarten by their SES (socio-economic status) and the kids with smart parents go to school and the others work in the fields? I don't understand your thinking. Teachers make exactly that difference in kids lives EVERY DAY. Children who live with violence learn that you don't solve things that way, you use your brain not your fist. We teach that explicitly every day in every grade in every school. Children whose family life is crap learn that someone cares about them just because they are in existance. Teachers teach that in addition to math and reading. We teach children to strive to be better, their best, not what others think they are or what their family is.
Who do you think taught that doctor to pay attention to detail? A teacher!
