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Michigan, definitely, has a glut of teachers. I'm a new graduate and I'm shocked at how much some districts pay. I went into teaching believing teachers were under paid but they make as much as I did in my former life as an engineer in Michigan, of course you can't find either a teaching job or an engineering job so a lot of good that does.
I wish I was in position to leave the state. With a masters degree in chemical engineering and a masters in teaching (certs in chemistry, physics and math) there are so many states I could find work in. Just not here. Unfortunately, for now, my husband's job keeps us here. I'll see if I can find something subbing next year, which is hard to do with so many people out of work. Lots of subs out there. I have my resume in to a few charters. Hopefully, I can find work in one.
I'm wondering what is going to happen to teacher wages here. With people leaving the state in record numbers, how can schools continue to pay $75K-$85K (the top of the ranges I saw at the Eastern Michigan job fair) for teachers? When they do lay off, they lay off the newer, lower paid teachers and that's not going to help when you have fewer students and, as a result, fewer dollars coming in.
Yeah, problem is no one is hiring teachers in Michigan!!! They are being recruited like crazy to other states, my SIL included. No one can find work here as a teacher. Highest paid...maybe I guess...but does't count worth anything if you can't get work doing it!
If you think it's bad here now, wait until the baby boomers start to retire and take their pension checks south. With no new industry to replace automotive, which will not make a comeback to anything near what it once was, when the baby boomers retire and head south, we're going to start hemoraging again. Then there will be fewer health care jobs and service sector jobs. For now, we still have those.
I really wish I was in position to move. When I first applied for uneimployment back in November, I had three offers to interview out of state within two weeks just from the unemployment database. Here I am 6 months later, still out of work (I took the opportunity to student teach so I can get my teaching degree in August).
The districts have been doing early retirement offers for years. However, in most cases, these positions are not replaced. It saves the districts money, but offers no jobs for new teachers.
Do you take in to account that MOST michigan teachers have to pay upwards to 200 per check for benefits?
Do you take in to account that teachers many teachers have to pay between $700-$1000 for union dues (and most unions don't do all the are supposed to for the etachers)
Do you take in to account that teachers spend well beyond 9am-4pm time period in the classroom? Most teachers in my school arrive at 7:30am and don't leave until 6:00pm. That is well beyond a 7 hour work day.
Do you take in to account that most teachers have to buy most of the supplies needed for there classroom because there is not enough money in the "budget" for classroom materials? I personally spent $750 last year alone on materials for my class.
Do you take in to account all the workshops and professional development we MUST partake in for state requirements? The college courses we have to continue to take? YES- most schools do NOT pay for college courses you are REQUIRED to take to maintain your teaching status. YES-most districts only reimburse you 70 dollars for your workshops....that generally cost from $70-$400 per workshop.
2 months off? When do you think most teachers are taking there college courses? Who do you think teaches summer school? When do you think we report back to work...the same day as kids? Most teachers get about 2 weeks off A lucky few get 3 or 4 weeks of vacation. But, that is a minority of people.
Okay, I ask you all to take that AVERAGE SALARY and do the math with the figures I gave you....
I don't think we are so far off from the other "hurting employees in michigan"
AND DO NOT BY ANY MEANS CRITIQUE ALL TEACHERS BASED ON THE JOB OF A FEW WHO DO NOT TEACH WITH RESPECT OF THE STUDENTS AND PROFESSION. The funny thing about this is that many of the teachrs who are the apathetic ones are the same people who came from the "business" world because they though tthat teaching would be fun and easy...ha. yeah, right.
Do you take in to account that MOST michigan teachers have to pay upwards to 200 per check for benefits?
Do you take in to account that teachers many teachers have to pay between $700-$1000 for union dues (and most unions don't do all the are supposed to for the etachers)
Do you take in to account that teachers spend well beyond 9am-4pm time period in the classroom? Most teachers in my school arrive at 7:30am and don't leave until 6:00pm. That is well beyond a 7 hour work day.
Do you take in to account that most teachers have to buy most of the supplies needed for there classroom because there is not enough money in the "budget" for classroom materials? I personally spent $750 last year alone on materials for my class.
Do you take in to account all the workshops and professional development we MUST partake in for state requirements? The college courses we have to continue to take? YES- most schools do NOT pay for college courses you are REQUIRED to take to maintain your teaching status. YES-most districts only reimburse you 70 dollars for your workshops....that generally cost from $70-$400 per workshop.
2 months off? When do you think most teachers are taking there college courses? Who do you think teaches summer school? When do you think we report back to work...the same day as kids? Most teachers get about 2 weeks off A lucky few get 3 or 4 weeks of vacation. But, that is a minority of people.
Okay, I ask you all to take that AVERAGE SALARY and do the math with the figures I gave you....
I don't think we are so far off from the other "hurting employees in michigan"
AND DO NOT BY ANY MEANS CRITIQUE ALL TEACHERS BASED ON THE JOB OF A FEW WHO DO NOT TEACH WITH RESPECT OF THE STUDENTS AND PROFESSION. The funny thing about this is that many of the teachrs who are the apathetic ones are the same people who came from the "business" world because they though tthat teaching would be fun and easy...ha. yeah, right.
$200/check is cheap for benefits. We pay over $400 through my husband's employer per pay and then pay $400 for life insurance on top of that. I paid appx. $150/ per pay when I was in automotive engineering and that was DIRT CHEAP. I'd settle for $200/pay in a heartbeat.
Union dues are the teacher's choice. They have the pay they do because of the union. I'd say it's paid for itself.
Yes teachers work longer hours but they work fewer days to compensate. In order for a teacher to work as many hours as an engineer (comparable salaries here when you look at education levels and years in service) they'd ave to work over 12 hours per day on school days. (engineers in my field do not get overtime until they clock more than 46.5 hours per week IF THEY GET OT AT ALL many work 50-60 hours per week for their base pay (allowing half hour lunch each day included in the work day, assuming 240 work days per year compared to 180 for teachers).
While new teachers probably work that, those with previous years lesson plans to fall back on likely aren't. You need to take into accoun that teachers get something like 16 weeks off a year not counting holidays like Thanksgiving, MLK, Labor day, Memorial day, etc, etc, etc... PLUS they get sick and personal days on top of all that vacation time. It's a pretty good deal, which is probably why people flock to it.
Don't whine. It's really unbecomming. I've done the math and if I'd started teaching the day I sarted in engineering, I would be making the same money I was when I left engineering with a whole lot more time off AND job security too boot. I was stunned to see the top pay for my area is up where I was as an engineer. Benefits are GREAT for teachers compared to other professions. Once you get past the first few years, it gets easier.
BTW, I"m making the change into teaching. Not because I think it's easy, though once I spend a few years honing skills and collecting ideas and writing lesson plans I expect it to get easier, but because I want to do something that matters. So much so, I've chosen to work in charter schools for less pay and no job security. I want to be part of educational change not educational status quo. And, honestly, I don't know how these districts can pay what they do and still do justice to the students. But it does explain why they run out of supplies before the year is over. After attending the Eastern Michigan job fair and getting pay scales for several districts, I'm thinking teachers are over paid right now. Unfortunately, when that happens in industry, you can correct it with professionals. With teachers being union, they're stuck and there's no more money coming in so other areas are cut to pay the teachers more which, in the end, short changes the students.
Industrial wages have adjusted downward in the past decade. Teaching wages have not. And the bene's are fantastic for the price. Plus there's that vacation schedule. Can't beat that one. Sorry, but you'll get no sympathy here. Teachers are well paid here. Not that there'd be anything wrong with that if our districts werne't hurting so badly financially. Sorry but it's time for the teachers to do a give back for the sake of the students.
Oh and when do you think engineers take their college courses? They don't get your 12 weeks off in the summer to take them. They have to do it on their own time after work. That's another thing you really shouldn't whine about.
If you really want to be taken seriously as a professional, first quit whining. Second quit hiding behind the skirts of a union. Professionals negotiate their own salaries based on what they bring to the company. Third give up about 10 weeks of that vaction. Our kids could benefit from more class time. You can take your continuing edcuation classes at night and on weekends like the rest of the professionals do. Fourth, go to merit pay. Pay for results. If you're good you get paid well. If you're not, you don't. That's how other professions work. If you want to be treated like a professional, act like one.
Last edited by Ivorytickler; 06-12-2008 at 09:52 AM..
I find it humorous the number of people who think teachers get 16 weeks off a Summer, and only work 180 days a year. I know a LOT of teachers and am related to several (cousins), none of the teachers I know have as much time off as I do. I think the ones who believe Teachers get so much time off are the same ones who believe that Ministers/Preachers only work 1 day a week and have 4 weeks a year off for vacation.
You are never going to change the minds of those who are set in their beliefs, but do not know the whole story and are unwilling to concede the point. If they become a Teacher my hat is off to them for taking on a very tough job (one I DO NOT want, and wouldn't take) and just hope the reality doesn't bite them too hard.
being a teacher myself-i NEVER say i don't get paid enough-i enjoy my benefits that me as a SINGLE person pays $200 for...my district we HAD to be members of the union!!
Ok i won't argue because like bydand says people are set in their beliefs!-
oh, and most teachers i know have to take a second job in the summer to pay their bills-and sure veteran teachers get paid a good amount of money-what about starting teachers-not much at all!
wow, i just have so many thoughts of a reply running through my head i will stop though and know that the attitude of non-teachers who criticize the profession is almost laughable!!!
I find it humorous the number of people who think teachers get 16 weeks off a Summer, and only work 180 days a year. I know a LOT of teachers and am related to several (cousins), none of the teachers I know have as much time off as I do. I think the ones who believe Teachers get so much time off are the same ones who believe that Ministers/Preachers only work 1 day a week and have 4 weeks a year off for vacation.
You are never going to change the minds of those who are set in their beliefs, but do not know the whole story and are unwilling to concede the point. If they become a Teacher my hat is off to them for taking on a very tough job (one I DO NOT want, and wouldn't take) and just hope the reality doesn't bite them too hard.
Here they get 12 weeks in the summer, two at Christmas, one at mid winter break and one at spring break for a total of 16 weeks of. We believe it because it's true. The teachers at my gir's school were done last week and don't return until the kids do after labor day. 16 weeks a year does happen. As does 180 days per year. Our kids go 175 minus snow days. Don't laugh too hard.
10 weeks in the summer is pretty much the minimum as is 4 weeks between Christmas, winter break and spring break. Now add two weeks sick time and however many personal days. That's a lot of time off compared to just about any other profession.
Reality won't bite me hard. I've been working 9.5 hours a day 240 days per year and taking my continuing education classes on my time in addition to any work I took home. I think I can handle the reduction in hours/days worked, lol.
I found I could pretty much work 10 hours a day on week days and put in an 8 hour day on Saturday and get everything done when I was student teaching. Add one more hour for tutoring per day when I'm the teacher (my supervising teacher still liked to tutor her own kids - BTW, she came out of industry too so I have a good idea what to expect by comparison). That will be my life during the school year for the first few years and then it will taper off a bit. It is going to be SO NICE to actually have time off in the summer to take my continuing education classes. I'm used to cramming them in after work.
I'm expecting this to be less work for the most part when you take everything into account (others I know who came out of industry found it to be less work once you factor in the extra time off). I may have only worked 9.5 hours per week day before but then I went to night school. Now I'll have work to take home but I won't be putting in 6-9 hours a week on continuing education. I get to do that while I"m off in the summer and I can do it in 3 and 4 week courses and still have 6 weeks off, plus christmas break, plus mid winter break, plus spring break. I haven't had that much time off since I was a kid.
Reality won't bite me hard. I've been working 9.5 hours a day 240 days per year and taking my continuing education classes on my time in addition to any work I took home. I think I can handle the reduction in hours/days worked, lol.
Thanks. Fortunately, I know sevaral people who have made this transition so I have a pretty good idea what I'm gettng into. I figure the school year will be close to the pace I kept while working full time in engineering and working on a masters but the trade off is the time off. My biggest issue is going to be what to do with the time off. I'll probably teach college courses in the summers like others I know. 10-12 weeks off is a long time.
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Really?
people are set in their beliefs!-
