[Arthur Digby Sellers]

I actually think this legislation will hurt Republicans more than Dems. With or without RTW, tying your horse to the union/UAW wagon was a long-term losing strategy for Dems.

As a libertarian, I'm frustrated by the social issue crusades in the party. People struggling economically in this state don't give a flying bleep about gay marriage or abortion.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by danielj72

There may be some hope for my poor old home state afterall. Right to work laws will attract business and increase worker productivity. Undoing the economic damage to the state will take a generation, even with this critical step in place but at least there is now hope. I will be watching it from my new home in the south, but I do wish to see Michigan recover even if I have no personal interest in it anymore.

You are being very shortsighted in your remarks. May I remind you, you lived and prospered in Michigan , you abandoned your state and took your well earned savings you made in Michigan with you to build a new home in the South, where big business has always trumped worker organization, from the cotton fields to the fabric mills, labor was cheap. Not much has changed ether, the south remains the lest educated,working poor, subsistence survival states , and the largest group of states that are sucking up Federal funding in the Nation . Our Tax dollars are going south, in more ways than one !! The little glimmer of hope that is now coming is not from American Business, but from mostly Europe with their investments in the south. I hope you enjoy your new found prosperity, built on the revenues from states like Michigan, and from the pork barrel politics that bring home the bacon, all the things the south says they are against. There are no greater Hippocrates than people in the South, its always been that way. So nice to hear you no longer have any personal interest in your home State anymore, the one that gave you the opportunity to join the two faced folks in our southern bigoted, anti racial, homophobic,born again closet drinking baptists and fundamentalist snake charming churches that appear at every crossroads in the South.
What you do not see yet, and O' you will in time, is the fact you are still a Yankee, always will be in the eyes of our Southern Folk you are a tourist, a " rich man" as many northerners are called that retire to the South because everything is cheaper. They may put on a mile wide smile ,but all the while hate your guts. You don't think so ? . Just take a trip to Columbia, SC and visit the Capital building some evening. There standing tall and proud are two State patrol officers, 24/7 guarding the rebel flag that fly's above your head, highlighted by flood lights reminding everyone you are in the true south, the War, the " Late unpleasantness " called by us Yankees the Civil War, its not over yet, never will be .You are but a tourist that brings your Michigan made money for all to enjoy. I hope this little story makes you proud, feel good, cause, you will soon need it, I know, 18 years in NC taught me lots, foremost, with all its beauty that the South would never be my home, you like I and many more, remain, a tourist thats all you will ever be. Don't burn all your bridges just yet, think about what I have said, you may want to return to the place once more where you found success, your real Home the state of Michigan.......

[actinic]

The right to work legislation hits to core beliefs within the GOP party. When elected house and senate GOP members vote AGAINST the legislation then they no longer represent the best interests of the party.

Here's the list of senate and house GOP members dissenting. Please let them know how you feel and tell your friends, especially those who might live within their districts.

Cue your calendar of choice to remind you of these people prior to elections. Let's not let people forget how their representatives voted on such a critical issue.

Senate:

Tory Rocca (R-Sterling Heights) - sentrocca@senate.mi.gov
Tom Casperson (Escanaba - 38th District - mostly UP) - SenTCasperson@senate.michigan.gov
Mike Nofs (Jackson - 19th District) - senmnofs@senate.michigan.gov
Mike Green (MI thumb area - 31st District) - SenMGreen@senate.michigan.gov

House:

Anthony Forlini of Harrison Township - AnthonyForlini@house.mi.gov
Ken Goike of Ray Township - KenGoike@house.mi.gov
Pat Somerville of New Boston - patsomerville@house.mi.gov
Ken Horn of Frankenmuth - kennethhorn@house.mi.gov
Dale Zorn of Ida - dalewzorn@house.mi.gov
Ed McBroom of Vulcan - EdMcBroom@house.mi.gov

[darstar]

Originally Posted by michigan83

I think the labor market in West Michigan is unique. There are a lot of small, privately held manufacturers/suppliers that are profitable and have good relationships with workers. The area is historically anti-union and very entrepreneurial, and the attitude almost comes more from the workers than even management. I think there is a reason that those businesses thrive in West Michigan.

Yet, if you go to Lansing, it is a completely different animal. The area is historically pro-union, dependent upon large companies (suppliers and GM) and public sector jobs for employment. It does not have nearly the number of small, independent, successful suppliers, even though it is closer to the heart of the auto industry.

I guess my point is that maybe it's not a coincidence that West Michigan has so many small suppliers that are successful and have resisted unions. The culture there is much different than the rest of Michigan. In some ways the west side culture can be a bad thing, but the business climate could certainly be a lesson to the rest of Michigan.

Not so, I lived in West Michigan for several years, and i lived in the Detroit area long ago. Yes they are quite different, but thats mostly because west Michigan is mostly rural. Its the fruit capital of the Country., farmers are too busy thinking about the weather, the seasonal workers from south of the border, and the big Juice and jam companies wanting to buy their contracts. West Mi. is also much more connected to Chicago than to Lansing or Detroit, always has been that way.

[Coldjensens]

I find the comments about the 2014 elections intersting.

By 2014, they hype and doomsday declarations will have dies off, as will the silver bullet claims. Most people will see no signficant change and not change will be realistically tied to the RTW bill. Claims will be made on both sides claiming opposite stastics and the people will just assume the politcains are simply lying again. No one will care much about right to work.

As Canduigit pointed ou in another thread, the voter populations concentrated in the Cities do not seem to care enough to vote heavliy in non-presidential elections. However the rest of the State is apparently more likely to vote. OUtside the Cities, Michigan is pretty red. That is a plausible explanation for why we end up with rep[ublican state leaders, but usually come out blue on the federal level.

So what will happen in 2014? If Canduidgit is correct, the more conservative voters will turn out in droves, and the more liberal voters in the cities will stay home. No one will care anymore about RTW. Thus, the election is likely to support the conservative/republican candidates. Of course the economic conditions may dictate more stongly the out come of the elctions one way or the other. If Michigan continues to lead the recovery, the current leaders will get re-elected. If Michigan crashes again, they will get ousted. RTW will not have any impact on the election.

[zthatzmanz28]

So long as we can vote in a few really good democrats..then again, these GOP members might be worth keeping around.

Besides, didn't Adolph Snyder go AGAINST the GOP on the bridge to Canada issue?
Why not get a GOP campaign to oust that nut from the rest in the jar?
But again, The T-Party picks individual verses to prove its point. If one GOP goes against the core beliefs and the T-party calls for removal, by logic, the T-Party must call for the removal of ALL GOP who go against the "core beliefs."

SNYDER MUST GO..just as those mentiond above should be punished.

Here is a novel thought for the T-Party---MAYBE the folks on this LOL list VOTED as their constituents WANTED and rejected PARTY LINES as being to much like joing the BORG?

[magellan]

Originally Posted by actinic

The right to work legislation hits to core beliefs within the GOP party. When elected house and senate GOP members vote AGAINST the legislation then they no longer represent the best interests of the party.

Here's the list of senate and house GOP members dissenting. Please let them know how you feel and tell your friends, especially those who might live within their districts.

Cue your calendar of choice to remind you of these people prior to elections. Let's not let people forget how their representatives voted on such a critical issue.

Senate:

Tory Rocca (R-Sterling Heights) - sentrocca@senate.mi.gov
Tom Casperson (Escanaba - 38th District - mostly UP) - SenTCasperson@senate.michigan.gov
Mike Nofs (Jackson - 19th District) - senmnofs@senate.michigan.gov
Mike Green (MI thumb area - 31st District) - SenMGreen@senate.michigan.gov

House:

Anthony Forlini of Harrison Township - AnthonyForlini@house.mi.gov
Ken Goike of Ray Township - KenGoike@house.mi.gov
Pat Somerville of New Boston - patsomerville@house.mi.gov
Ken Horn of Frankenmuth - kennethhorn@house.mi.gov
Dale Zorn of Ida - dalewzorn@house.mi.gov
Ed McBroom of Vulcan - EdMcBroom@house.mi.gov

You won, give it a rest. Do you really want your party to be lock step jack boot militants?

Good for these people for breaking party lines and voting their consciences. They should be applauded.

[Coldjensens]

Pat SOmmerville voted agaisnt it becasue he had a problem with some aspect of the particular bill rather than the concept. Sommerville rrepresents Downriver. hat is an area primarily populated with union workers. Sommerville probably has no idea whether the union workers favor RTW or dislike it. From my scientific poll, I determined some are in favor of it and some do not care. (I asked my wife and some union workers sitting near us at Five Guys. I think I talke tio six people in all). I know SOmmerville a little. He is a really bright guy. He is a common sense ppolitician. He is not a party hack and will nto vote for something just because he is supposed to follow the party line. He supprts what he feels is right and opposes what he feels is wrong for his constituients. I can see having problems with aspects of the bill, particularly the way it was drafted and passed rather than the subject matter. I am not sure SOmmerville has any problem with the concept, they did say he had a problem with some particular aspect of this particualr bill, but I did not hear what it was, I onnly caught the tail end of the discussion.

It is also possible he knew it would pass without him, but wanted to vote against it so he could get re-elected in order to support other common sense issues. It woudl do not good to support a bill that does not need his support but give the next four years of votes to a democrat as a result of suporitng the bill. In most cases they know whether a bill will pass before they vote.

[Bydand]

Originally Posted by darstar

The power of the people is tied to the union support. I was never a Union supporter , as a small business man, but I certainly was not for the power of big business taking over the Country ...I fought for equal level playing field for more than forty years. I represented my industry ( transportation) via our trade associations, I served on local and national boards, I gave of my time, to make a difference. Eventually the power of big business, distorted what we all had been working for.......our trade association disappeared almost over night, it was a sad day. I kept telling everyone not to vote for the slime that was controlled by big business, no one listened, most continued to vote conservative even though it was not in their best interest to do so......Now today the level playing field is more one-sided than ever, its all about money, lots of it, the wealthy got richer......it is time to rein in this power before it's too late, untold wealth of big business / Goverment control, it's pure fascist ideals. You are but one more supporter fueling their fires, drinking their cool aid, and all the while helping to distroy our Country from within, at any cost just to advance the right wing miss guided agenda . I guess I thought you were not one of those, from some of your posts....too bad, it's been nice knowing you on City Data....until now !

Really? I vote for who will do the job best, sometimes it is a Dem, sometimes it is a Rep. Don't like Kool-aid and if that is what you think, more power to you. Have a good day.

[magellan]

Here's a Republican who should be called out. She lobbied for RTW to pass, and for her husband (as a corrections officer) to be exempted. Hmmmm.

State Rep. Lisa Posthumus Lyons tried to exempt husband from right-to-work law | MLive.com

She became quite notorious in the Roy Schmidt scandal last summer:

Read text message exchange between Lisa Posthumus Lyons and Roy Schmidt, post-party switch | MLive.com