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Old 12-07-2012, 08:00 PM
 
Location: West Michigan
12,083 posts, read 35,507,225 times
Reputation: 16932

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Quote:
Originally Posted by zthatzmanz28 View Post
What i sthe first thing labor experiences when the union contract is voided? PAY CUTS.
Where does RTW void ANY union contracts? It doesn't. If you have proof otherwise that this RTW will void union contracts please post links because nothing I can find says that. It says they will no longer be able to collect dues/fees from non-members, nothing in there about voiding ANY labor contracts though.
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Old 12-08-2012, 08:07 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,885 posts, read 18,049,245 times
Reputation: 3882
Quote:
Originally Posted by tjay View Post
I think its time to delete this thread...too much stuff you (and your buddies) don't agree with.
If you have an issue with a specific post, report it and we'll check it out.
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:36 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 25,333,553 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bydand View Post
Where does RTW void ANY union contracts? It doesn't. If you have proof otherwise that this RTW will void union contracts please post links because nothing I can find says that. It says they will no longer be able to collect dues/fees from non-members, nothing in there about voiding ANY labor contracts though.
We can also expect that as big money convinces folks to forego the union, that eventually there will be no union and wages and benifits will drop.

Of the 10 states in he greatest poverty, 8 of them are RIGHT to be POOR states. Most are lowest in science and math scores at the high school level.

Coincidence?
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Old 12-08-2012, 09:40 AM
 
Location: On the brink of WWIII
21,093 posts, read 25,333,553 times
Reputation: 7812
Quote:
Originally Posted by canudigit View Post
The unions have been losing power in Michigan since way before this legislation happened, anyway. How is it that a new hire line worker at any of the Big Three now makes about $14.50/hour, roughly half of what their earlier hire co-workers make, and this happened when Michigan was not a Right to Work state?

Simple answer: The unions demands have gotten way beyond realistic and sustainable and were a major contributor to the almost demise of the domestic automotive industry. Cuts had to be made somewhere, they were, and the unions had no power to stop it.

Much like the $2.75 million salary received by TWINKIE CEO and the $2 million bonus they gave themselves after bankruptcy. Not to say anything about the MILLIONS that were taken from the employees retirement fund that we the tax payer will be responsible now thet TWINKIE GATE has run its destructive course. Not to mention the fact than most CEOs are paid double digit million dollar salaries while the UNION systematiaclly destroys capitalism from the inside?

CEOs destroyed the AUTO INDUSTRY. Have we all forgotten their salary requirements and golden parachutes?
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Old 12-08-2012, 10:41 AM
 
915 posts, read 1,208,592 times
Reputation: 1318
I think we need to remember that BOTH Republicans and Democrats can be monied and elitist.

Elitism is not exclusive to Republicans. Sadly, too many people can't see that they are being played for suckers by the Democratic Party because apparently the Dems want to do the right thing. (Wasn't it Bill Clinton that signed NAFTA??? Bill wasn't a Republican.)

While Democrats don't like the way that Republicans spend their money and time, Republicans are equally ticked off at the way Dems spend their time and money.

The unions over-reached with Prop. 2. Personally, I wish that Rick wouldn't have touched RTW, but the fact remains that actions have consequences.

People are welcome to try for a 4th time to recall Snyder. Look at how well the last 3 times turned out.

A lot of people are really sickened by the ways that unions "do business". We are sick and tired of watching Detroit being flushed down the toilet because unions are more interested in protecting their own than doing what's right for the City.

Rightly, I can see where some of these CEO benefits are obscene, but that doesn't mean that unions are somehow immune from criticism. I watched my dad get screwed by his union, so I really don't have much respect for them. I get how people who have had good experiences with unions don't think they are bad and help people. However, not everyone has positive experiences with their union and we shouldn't pretend that they are all 'good' and they bring rainbows and unicorns everywhere they go.

Most people in my generation don't think about work in terms of belonging to a union. We aren't going to work for one company for life. We think in terms of 'collaboration', 'teamwork', not adversarial 'us vs them'.

We also don't trust other people to watch out for us because we saw that our parents couldn't be bothered to be home for us when we needed them. Times are changing. A new generation is taking power and we simply don't bow down and kiss the brass ring and do things just 'cuz that's what our parents and grandparents did.

The reality is that people don't like bullies. After getting my car keyed up a couple of times just because it's a Honda and it was sitting in a Chrysler parking lot, I really am not interested in playing nice w/people who simply think that vandalizing my car will somehow make me consider purchasing an American vehicle from your company. People want to make these things personal and then act all innocent when they get called out - sorry.....union people have pissed a lot of average people off. Looking the other way when people get treated badly doesn't help your cause.

It's unrealistic to act like one side is the victim and the other isn't. Everyone shares part of the blame in this problem. It's up to us to deal realistically with the problems that we have. RTW is a realistic solution to a problem that people have. They don't want to pay union dues to a union that doesn't do jack for them.
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:04 AM
 
Location: Pure Michigan!
4,674 posts, read 7,985,073 times
Reputation: 7335
Nice post, snoopygirlmi!

It makes you wonder what the true agenda is when facts like Bill Clinton signing NAFTA into law are completely ignored, swept under the rug, whatever you want to call it. If it's all about solidarity and workers' rights, then why would it matter who passed the anti-worker legislation, it should be war on all anti-union politicians, not just the Republicans.

LOL, when my dh worked for Teamsters Local 20 in Toledo, OH during the Clinton Regime, the union actually sent us a Clinton/Gore bumper sticker in the mail...AFTER the twit signed NAFTA!!??? Can you imagine if a Republican President had signed that bill? Yet to this day you will hear about how the Republicans sold us all down the river with NAFTA. Not even the slightest effort to learn or acknowledge the truth, just "Republican bad, Democrat good, now be good little sheep, drink your Kool-aid, don't try to have an independent thought, and whatever you do, keep the money rollin' in".
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Old 12-08-2012, 11:42 AM
 
7,456 posts, read 9,223,012 times
Reputation: 13466
Quote:
Originally Posted by snoopygirlmi View Post
We also don't trust other people to watch out for us because we saw that our parents couldn't be bothered to be home for us when we needed them.
Sad. It seems that you have bigger issues than this thread.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:19 PM
 
1,175 posts, read 543,015 times
Reputation: 1211
This is ridiculous. If the 2012 election in Michigan was fair there would be a Democratic controlled legislature as more people vote for Democratic House and Senate candidates. But due to the extreme Republican gerrymandering they kept control of both houses against the will of the people.
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:51 PM
 
Location: Pure Michigan!
4,674 posts, read 7,985,073 times
Reputation: 7335
Quote:
Originally Posted by jackmichigan View Post
Sad. It seems that you have bigger issues than this thread.
No, I think she's just making a blanket statement for a lost generation whose parents valued mcmansions with three car garages and trips to St. Croix over staying home to parent their kids and making do with less material junk, resulting in a generation of kids who have no anchor or sense of being valued. This is actually pretty common knowledge...
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Old 12-08-2012, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Pure Michigan!
4,674 posts, read 7,985,073 times
Reputation: 7335
Quote:
Originally Posted by GABESTA535 View Post
This is ridiculous. If the 2012 election in Michigan was fair there would be a Democratic controlled legislature as more people vote for Democratic House and Senate candidates. But due to the extreme Republican gerrymandering they kept control of both houses against the will of the people.
The truth is that Michigan goes blue during the Presidential election years because the urban Obamabots come out of the woodwork but don't have the time or interest to do so in the off year elections. If you look at a political map of Michigan, even of the 2012 Presidential election, Michigan is basically a red state with blue spots in the large and mid-sized cities, just like all the other Midwestern "blue" states. It's the red county people, by and large, who care enough about politics at the state level to bother to get out and vote during the state level elections, hence why "blue" states like Michigan, Ohio, and Wisconsin have Republican governors and legislatures.

http://www.cnn.com/election/2012/res...e/MI#president

As you can see, more than twice as many counties in Michigan went red in 2012 than went blue. Now isn't it a no-brainer why Republicans get elected over and over at the state level in Michigan? Get those urban voters who are only bothering to vote during Presidential elections out to vote during the off years, and that could change. If not, good luck, because you will always be outnumbered.

You got four more years of Obama, so why so bitter?

Last edited by canudigit; 12-08-2012 at 01:14 PM..
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