[danielj72]

Originally Posted by snoopygirlmi

I think we need to remember that BOTH Republicans and Democrats can be monied and elitist.

Elitism is not exclusive to Republicans. Sadly, too many people can't see that they are being played for suckers by the Democratic Party because apparently the Dems want to do the right thing. (Wasn't it Bill Clinton that signed NAFTA??? Bill wasn't a Republican.)

While Democrats don't like the way that Republicans spend their money and time, Republicans are equally ticked off at the way Dems spend their time and money.

The unions over-reached with Prop. 2. Personally, I wish that Rick wouldn't have touched RTW, but the fact remains that actions have consequences.

People are welcome to try for a 4th time to recall Snyder. Look at how well the last 3 times turned out.

A lot of people are really sickened by the ways that unions "do business". We are sick and tired of watching Detroit being flushed down the toilet because unions are more interested in protecting their own than doing what's right for the City.

Rightly, I can see where some of these CEO benefits are obscene, but that doesn't mean that unions are somehow immune from criticism. I watched my dad get screwed by his union, so I really don't have much respect for them. I get how people who have had good experiences with unions don't think they are bad and help people. However, not everyone has positive experiences with their union and we shouldn't pretend that they are all 'good' and they bring rainbows and unicorns everywhere they go.

Most people in my generation don't think about work in terms of belonging to a union. We aren't going to work for one company for life. We think in terms of 'collaboration', 'teamwork', not adversarial 'us vs them'.

We also don't trust other people to watch out for us because we saw that our parents couldn't be bothered to be home for us when we needed them. Times are changing. A new generation is taking power and we simply don't bow down and kiss the brass ring and do things just 'cuz that's what our parents and grandparents did.

The reality is that people don't like bullies. After getting my car keyed up a couple of times just because it's a Honda and it was sitting in a Chrysler parking lot, I really am not interested in playing nice w/people who simply think that vandalizing my car will somehow make me consider purchasing an American vehicle from your company. People want to make these things personal and then act all innocent when they get called out - sorry.....union people have pissed a lot of average people off. Looking the other way when people get treated badly doesn't help your cause.

It's unrealistic to act like one side is the victim and the other isn't. Everyone shares part of the blame in this problem. It's up to us to deal realistically with the problems that we have. RTW is a realistic solution to a problem that people have. They don't want to pay union dues to a union that doesn't do jack for them.

Japanese cars are not the enemy in 2012. Cars being vandalized because they are "foreign" sounds like a story from 1980, not the modern age. That Honda you had vandalized was probably built by Americans in Ohio. Nissans are built in Tn, Volkswagens in Tn, BMW in South Carolina, Toyota in Mississippi, need I go on?? Union members are upset more because those vehicles are built by non union labor, Americans making a good wage without unions. They are being built in right to work states, red states. I have a big problem with NAFTA, trade inbalances and the offshoring of our industry, but the Japanese car industry has become a benifit to us, and an example of FAIR trade. They build em here and sell em here, we cannot ask for more from them. We should be more upset about all the cheap Chinese garbage we are all forced to buy thanks to "free trade trade agreements". Michigan is an economic ruin because it has been hurt by free trade and offshoring. It has also been hurt because of its loyalty to unions, big goverment programs and the relsulting high taxes. Now I will concede that Michigan is no longer a concern of mine, as I have left the state but it still bothers me to see it the way it is today. It may not be in the near future but I would like to one day read about Michigans recovery in the papers. Passing right to work legislation would make Michigan more like the states that are now prospering.

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

Originally Posted by magellan

Ha, there's more to life than who's in the Presidency. In fact, we're directly affected a lot more by the legislature (federal and state) and judicial branches than what the president does.

Keep attacking the other side everyone. That's how the politicos want us to behave because we're much easier to control (dupe) and make money off of.

So, about that Right To Work legislation and how it was rammed through in lame duck session (because they wont' have the votes next term) and put in an appropriation so that it will never see a true vote, ever.

This legislation never would have happened if Bob King had not attempted his insane power grab with Prop 2. If you're looking for a villain, look no further than solidarity house. Elections have consequences.

[Gunluvver2]

Right to Work is fundamental. This gives workers the choice to be represented by a Union if the majority want it. Mandatory Union membership is corruption in its purest form.

GL2

[RememberMee]

Lots of people get confused between "supporting collective bargaining rights" and "forcing people to be in a union when they do not want to be in a union"

It's a classic "tragedy of the common". People use or benefit from common "resource" (union negotiated wages etc.) but they don't want to pay to maintain that "resource", they don't want to fight, they believe that it's their efforts and "free market" that gave all those wages and benefits of theirs.

The laws of wages in the "free markets" are solidly established. Wages of the unorganized workers on the mercy of owners tend to approach their physical subsistence expenses (or less).

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by Gunluvver2

Right to Work is fundamental. This gives workers the choice to be represented by a Union if the majority want it. Mandatory Union membership is corruption in its purest form.

GL2

That's classic of talk radio' "getting something for nothing". Unaffiliated workers benefit from the wages & work conditions unions negotiate but they don't want to pay unions dues. It makes perfect selfish sense until unions all but gone.

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by danielj72

Union members are upset more because those vehicles are built by non union labor, Americans making a good wage without unions.

To claim that you need to wait for the last union in auto industry to disappear. No unions = downward pressure on the wages of non union Toyota, Nissan and Honda workers.

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

RememberMee: How does a part-time employee at Kroger that has his wages garnished from the union, but receives no representation benefit from the union?

[Ceege]

If this bill is signed, would it be possible to repeal it, if or when the Democrats get control again? Everyone I talk to wants Snyder OUT and are fed up with these underhanded tactics.

[RememberMee]

Originally Posted by Arthur Digby Sellers

RememberMee: How does a part-time employee at Kroger that has his wages garnished from the union, but receives no representation benefit from the union?

I doubt that it's unions that pushed for "part timers" at Kroger. Just imagine talk radio going berserk if Kroger union is going on strike to prevent Kroeger from hiring more and more of part-timers. Unions can do what they can do. And with prevailing popular sentiment "let's spread our buns and bend over, owners would give a sweeter candy" unions cannot do much. Is it fair for part-time Kroeger workers to pay union dues? I really don't know specifics to answer that. We need to compare their wages/work conditions with and without union.

[Arthur Digby Sellers]

But why would the unions make these employees poorer by docking their wages? Maybe because it's not all about the workers...