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Old 12-05-2012, 06:35 AM
 
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Before the election, he was vehemently opposed to it. Now all of a sudden, after a "discussion" with political hack Grover Norquist he's "considering it."

Snyder puts right to work on agenda | The Detroit News | detroitnews.com
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Old 12-05-2012, 08:56 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
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Quote:
Before the election, he was vehemently opposed to it. Now all of a sudden, after a "discussion" with political hack Grover Norquist he's "considering it."
Awesome news.

Before people start bringing up Mississippi and Texas as examples of what Michigan will turn into... please compare apples to apples. The only right-to-work states that have a similar culture/history to Michigan are Indiana and Iowa. Any other comparison is basically useless.

Last edited by michigan83; 12-05-2012 at 09:05 AM..
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Here.
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I don't recall him being "vehemently opposed" to it. If I recall correctly, he always said he didn't want to discuss it "at this time" or something to that effect.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:05 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
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Interesting...

"In research published in 2000, economist Thomas Holmes of the University of Minnesota compared counties close to the border between states with and without right-to-work laws (thereby holding constant an array of factors related to geography and climate). He found that the cumulative growth of employment in manufacturing (the traditional area of union strength prior to the rise of public-employee unions) in the right-to-work states was 26 percentage points greater than that in the non-right-to-work states."
-Robert Barro, Harvard Economist
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Here.
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Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
Awesome news.
Sarcasm?

Quote:
Before people start bringing up Mississippi and Texas as examples of what Michigan will turn into... please compare apples to apples. The only right-to-work states that have a similar culture/history to Michigan are Indiana and Iowa. Any other comparison is basically useless.
I don't follow. Why does the culture/history matter? Michigan has become less unionized as time has gone on. I think a lot of people are fed up with the unions.
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Old 12-05-2012, 09:10 AM
 
Location: West Michigan
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Originally Posted by Retroit View Post
Sarcasm?



I don't follow. Why does the culture/history matter? Michigan has become less unionized as time has gone on. I think a lot of people are fed up with the unions.
Nope. Not sarcasm.

Culture and history matters because RTW opponents like to say that Michigan will become "the next Mississippi" if it passes RTW laws. I am saying that it is fear-mongering and is based on comparisons between places that have very different challenges and cultures. See my post above yours, there is a study that was done that takes this into account.
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Old 12-05-2012, 10:08 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
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What he said previously was he preferred the issue not be brought up. He did not want it on his desk. He felt it is too divisive and not good for the state to bring it up at a tiem when everyone needs to work together. He very carefully avoided stating a position on it one way or the other and simly siad he hopes it will never come up.

Now it has come up, he is stuck with delaing with it, he will have to take a postition on it.

When the Unions made their power grab in the last election and got soundly shot down, some legislators saw that as a mandate for right to work (i.e. they think the message is people are sick and tired of the Unions) Thus, some legislators are hell bent on bringing it to a head and forcing Snyder to take a position on it. They probably think his position will be to favor right to work. I am not sure he has decided, but the data seems to indicate it is the sensible course to take. However, it will be divisive no matter how it comes out.
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Old 12-05-2012, 11:40 AM
 
Location: Here.
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Originally Posted by michigan83 View Post
Nope. Not sarcasm.

Culture and history matters because RTW opponents like to say that Michigan will become "the next Mississippi" if it passes RTW laws. I am saying that it is fear-mongering and is based on comparisons between places that have very different challenges and cultures. See my post above yours, there is a study that was done that takes this into account.
On the contrary. I think that RTW proponents are the ones saying that Michigan will become like other RTW states (which have seen job growth). The RTW opponents are saying that RTW is destroying some American ideal, which RTW states are violating.

(Maybe I'm missing what you are trying to say?)

Full article:
Robert Barro: Unions vs. the Right to Work - WSJ.com
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Old 12-05-2012, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
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If RTW passes, my wife will be happy. She is forced to pay into a public union where they take her money and do absolutely nothing for her (since she is part time). Their rules create absurd situations that she has to deal with. And they take her money and spend it supporting some political and social causes she is opposed to. She is an assistant librarian which requires a degree, but she makes only about $12 an hour before paying union dues. Meanwhile clerks assigned to work under her make $20 - $25 an hour and some of them cannot even spell and really have no idea what a library is for. They get the job through seniority doing things like cleaning at the prison, or driving a sewage truck. She could not take the job as a clerk and make more money, because she would have to spend years driving a sewer truck before she would be qualified under union rules for the library clerk position. For her particular organization (library), absolutely every aspect of union impact is negative and nothing is good. Maybe it is different for other jobs.

Lots of people get confused between "supporting collective bargaining rights" and "forcing people to be in a union when they do not want to be in a union" Those are two different concepts. I am very supportive of collective bargaining rights. I think workers should be allowed to form unions and engage in collective bargaining if they want to. However I also think no individual should be forced to join a union they do not want to join in order to keep or get a job. If the individuals do not want union representation, they can negotiate their own employment terms. The unions do not realize it, but this would actually be good for the unions. It will force them to engage in customer service and actually act beneficially for their members rather than ignoring their members interests and needs while pursuing personal political interests. Forcing the unions to become more service oriented will make them more relevant to their members and create renewed support. It certainly appears in Michigan that the unions have pretty much lost the support of their members, or at least a substantial plurality of their members, especially the public workers unions (try to find a teacher who likes and supports their union - you may find one, but it will take a lot of searching. 100% of the teachers I know hate their union.).
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Old 12-05-2012, 03:09 PM
 
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Hey, this is Michigan, where tradition is taking unemployment (and darned proud of it!) before taking any concession while spreading the blame rather than seeking solutions. Look where that got us.
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