[darstar]

Originally Posted by magellan

Assuming you mean the U.P., which doesn't even have enough people to have one single metro area. There are more people in Ann Arbor than all of the UP put together. It's apples and oranges.

I think everyone believes the roads are currently underfunded. So how do we get the legislature to quit fighting and fix the problem?

I knew someone would bring up that population thing. Sure we all know that the UP has 1/3rd the land mass, and 2 percent of the population, agreed. However, we DO have a lot of roads, 500 miles across in places, freezing harsh climate, tons of snow removal equipment, way more than you have in Troll land per area. So, you can double the winter season ( Oct. to June)........more than you may thing goes into our winter infrastructure.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by darstar

I knew someone would bring up that population thing. Sure we all know that the UP has 1/3rd the land mass, and 2 percent of the population, agreed. However, we DO have a lot of roads, 500 miles across in places, freezing harsh climate, tons of snow removal equipment, way more than you have in Troll land per area. So, you can double the winter season ( Oct. to June)........more than you may thing goes into our winter infrastructure.

Most of the wear and tear on roads comes from cars and trucks, not snow. No traffic = roads last a lot longer. 131 through downtown GR sees 110,000 cars... a day. 75 and 94 in Detroit, even more.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by magellan

Most of the wear and tear on roads comes from cars and trucks, not snow. No traffic = roads last a lot longer. 131 through downtown GR sees 110,000 cars... a day. 75 and 94 in Detroit, even more.

Most wear comes from heavy vehicles (hence weight limits on trucks). A typical car does no damage to a properly-built road.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by ram2

Most wear comes from heavy vehicles (hence weight limits on trucks). A typical car does no damage to a properly-built road.

Wrong , cars are what makes the roads based on volume and demand. If the big highways were built for trucks only they would be built differently. However, Michigan does have the highest weight limit in the Country, yet these car friendly highways should be constructed with the real heavy loads in mind. The theory the way Michigan see's it is, more wt. more axels . The real damage is done this way, instead of strong bridge laws. ( greater distance between axles to spread out the loaded wt. )
Your statement that cars do NO damage is just not true, in order to build and maintain these high speed highways designed for car volumes it take a lot of trucks to build, maintain, and reconstruct to handle more and more traffic.

[us66]

[quote=ram2;29607611]

Originally Posted by DTWflyer

Michigan road conditions are attributed to many of the factors mentioned above.4. Michigans brutal freeze-thaw cycles during the winter months. Nothing worse than getting an inch of rain quickly followed by a sudden freeze, snow, then another rapid warm-up.

.quote]



Then explain why I-75 in northwest Ohio is in much better shape compared to I-75 in southeast Michigan. Same weather. Same freeze-thaw cycles. You can close your eyes and tell when you cross the border just by the road conditions.

The freeways in metro Toledo are asphalt from what I remember. on 75 and 23, that is the big difference.

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by ram2

The Ohio Turnpike has these facilities called "service plazas" which sell gas. The gas tax money collected at these locations is only used for Ohio Turnpike maintenance.

Why don't you read the official Ohio Turnpike website to learn how Ohio Turnpike funding is maintained.

Those are not the only places people passing trough are permitted to buy gas. I am not particularly interested in how the turnpike is maintained. I am interested in how the other roads are maintained. However maybe the website indicates what amount is pad to the state for rent/royalties for the turnpike. That would help with understanding whether Ohio gets additional funding beyond their 28 cent gas tax.

[Coldjensens]

From the Ohio Turnpike website:

"The Ohio Turnpike has become an economic lifeline helping bring in untold millions of dollars to our state. Whether traveling on a shopping trip to an antique store or the truck shipment of tons of automotive parts, the Turnpike makes every journey safer, more convenient and more efficient. Meanwhile, the Ohio Turnpike Commission continues to promote economic development by planning new projects to increase accessibility to business and industry.

The Turnpike also receives about $2.7 million a year from a portion of the state tax on fuel sold only at Turnpike service stations. This money is allocated to bridges and overpasses to state routes."

The turnpike receives only a portion of the tax on gas from service centers, not all of it. The remainder goes to fund Ohio's road department. All of the gas tax from sales outside the service centers goes to other roads.

It is not clear what "portion" of the gas tax the turnpike received from service centers, but 2.7 million is a pittance in road terms, it is clear the lions share of the tax is going to the department of transportation. That $2.7 million a year makes no difference to anyone. Wiki explains: "The 2006/2007 operating budget for the department is forecast at $2.898 billion, with $753 million going towards general operating expenditures and $724 million for new programs funded by the Jobs and Progress plan. Total revenue is expected to be $1.089 billion from the state and $1.247 billion from the federal government, equaling $2.336 billion." The balance comes from bonds (borrowing).

And no. Travelers on the turnpike are not limited to using only the service centers. Personally I usually get off the turnpike and go into a town for a meal, gas, stretch and walk, explore a little talk to locals etc. Service centers are Boring. Plus we used to get off to buy fireworks. Thus, I can say with absoute certainty, turnpike travelers are not limited to service centers as some seem to believe.

Apparently unlike Indiana and Illinois no lease or royalty payments are derived form the turnpike. It is operated by the State. Ohio considered distributing toll money for road projects but apparently turned it down. Wiki says:

"In April 2008, governor Ted Strickland and legislative leaders announced a planned stimulus package that would redistribute Turnpike tolls to road projects throughout the state.[31][32] On May 23, the Ohio Senate Finance Committee voted to pass a new version of the package which would not involve tolls collected"

Hopefully that helps with your understanding of the roads differences. Ohio has a 28 cent per gallon gas tax. We have 19 cents. Ohio has millions of pass through drivers from other states buying gas and contributing that 28 cents a gallon. We have very few. Ohio has one major freeway (214 miles) paid for by tolls and a portion of gas tax form service centers along the toll road. We pay for all of our freeways out of tax money. It is also possible Ohio has not had 50 years of idiot politicians kicking the can down the road and spending money on more popular measures and pet projects while merely doing band aid road repairs. That I do not have any information on.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by Coldjensens

I am interested in how the other roads are maintained.

Roads in Ohio are paid for the same way they are in Michigan - via local, state, and federal tax dollars. Knowing the clowns representing Michigan in Washington, DC, Ohio's politicians are probably better at getting federal tax money to Ohio roads.

[ram2]

[quote=us66;29653620]

Originally Posted by ram2

The freeways in metro Toledo are asphalt from what I remember. on 75 and 23, that is the big difference.

Isn't I-75 on the Ohio side of the border concrete?

[Coldjensens]

Originally Posted by ram2

Roads in Ohio are paid for the same way they are in Michigan - via local, state, and federal tax dollars. Knowing the clowns representing Michigan in Washington, DC, Ohio's politicians are probably better at getting federal tax money to Ohio roads.

Almost all road money is matching money. The Feds match what the state spends. When it comes to roads, there is not much a politician can do except for special project funding.

Now military bases - that is another story.

As discussed above, Ohio actually gets funding for roads somewhat differently than Michigan does. And in both states it is funded by gas tax, not general tax fund dollars. Ohio has more gas tax, more people buying gas, and one large long highway that is free. Ohio also sells bonds for road funding. I do not knwo whehter MDOT sells bonds or not. I should know, but it has never come up.