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The government shuts down every night, every weekend and many holidays. It's not the end of the world. The whole government does not get shut down. The military is still in place, social security checks still get written, the President is still free to take his family on vacation to Martha's vineyard, etc.
It isn't. Tea Party is middle class and predominately led by women. The Tea Party is the one true liberal movement in America today. They are fighting for fair, un-corrupted small govt. Big, heavy handed govt. (aka fascism isn't the answer).
The ultra rich are crony corporate Democrats. The Hamptons, Hollywood, Silicon Valley, all Democrat strongholds. Go to "red states" and the ultra rich enclaves ala Jackson Hole or Sun Valley are by far the most leftist. Democrats are the party of the ultra rich, the corrupt wealthy, and those dependent on crony, heavy handed govt.
In today's America left = control, right = freedom. Progressives (aka fascists) are entirely on the American left. Woodrow Wilson was by far the most fascist American President and he is still an icon among the fascist/progressive left.
The libertarian Koch bros. are the strawmen the fascist left uses as punching bags/distractions to distract low information voters from fascist/progressive and former Nazi mega donor George Soros, the fascist corporate media (Time-Warner, Comcast, Disney), labor cartels, and all the other big govt. fascist corporate cronies. Buffett = Democrat. Gates = Democrat. Democrats are the party of Aspen, CO, Sun Vally, ID, the Hamptons, Hollywood, Manhattan, and almost every other super wealthy fascist enclave.
You can't have fascism with a low regulatory free market.
BTW, the most anti-crony corporate candidate on a major ticket in recent years was Sarah Palin, yet the crony-corporate left destroyed her via their left wing corporate newspapers, magazines, and TV networks.
The RW bubble again. Disregard all history, dictionaries, encyclopedias, and get your "information" from Fox, Limbaugh, RW media, and call yourself a true liberal. The teabaggers have thrown in with the republican party and the corporate Right - your choice. Thanks to whatever skewed media you listen to and trust, you are totally unaware of the progressive democratic caucus, what their platform is, and what the traditional roles of the parties are. You parrot all the right-wing shock jocks, yet call yourself "liberal". Democrats support campaign finance reform and repubs - your party - oppose it. Amazing.
So Buffett and Gates support dems while poor repubs are left out in the cold?
The Kochs are extremist wealthy corporate inheritance-baby republican oil barons - and yet you believe they are "grass roots". Fascist societies are right-wing ones.
And oh yeah, let's look at the republican (your party) red states - the poorest, least educated, and the biggest "takers" of taxpayer money. These are the people you "self-sufficient" teabaggers decided to throw in with. Red States Are Welfare Queens - Business Insider
BTW Palin was not destroyed by anybody - she is doing exactly what she wants to do - milk the rubes of their money via the lecture circuit and writing books. Her decision and no one else's.
So many RW extremist points, and seriously, no words for all this disconnect. What is your source of "information"?
The government shuts down every night, every weekend and many holidays. It's not the end of the world. The whole government does not get shut down. The military is still in place, social security checks still get written, the President is still free to take his family on vacation to Martha's vineyard, etc.
Don't fall for the liberal hysteria.
Yep, and your RW boys never take vacations.
Oh, and you want hysteria? Ebola, Muslims, liberals, socialists, dark-skinned refugees, women, minorities, the poor, war on whites, war on white males, universal healthcare, war on Christmas, war on Christianity, war on the rich, Benghazi, Benghazi,.......and besides that - Benghazi.
BTW, in their ignorance, the extremist RW whacks seems to be calling for total shutdown, and repubs gleefully stoke the fires of this dumb notion as "good for America" when it is good for nobody.
You've proven just what you are in your responses here. Do a little research on the history of progressives in this country and the eugenics movement of the early 20th century. The example that everybody thinks of when they hear fascism is that of Nazi Germany -- you know the National Socialist party. They had much more in common with the progressives and socialists in this country than any right-wing party. If you take out the eugenics movement, it's all about government control of every day life. Which party does that sound like in the USA? This is not right-wing stuff.
Most Republicans and Tea Party people just want the government to leave them the hell alone. The goal is to shrink the size of government and reduce the number of working days required just to pay their taxes so you're not put in prison by the IRS. We want to enjoy the freedoms granted by the Constitution which basically states what Government cannot do but it somehow always manages to erode these freedoms. It's very unlikely that an average person in this country can go more than a couple days without being guilty of some crime by just doing their day-to-day activities. The police love this so they can pull you over or stop you at any point in time because you'll be guilty of something. This is mostly because of progressives that want to build a larger and larger nanny state so that the government can control all aspects of society.
With respect to the red state/blue state thing -- which party do you think the folks who are getting government money belong to? Which party do you think is creating the regulation burden where that money is necessary? If the federal government is giving money to the states, it's only so that it can control what they do. That money never comes without strings attached. Also, anybody find it strange that the whole red/blue state thing never changes any more? Back before 2000, the networks used to alternate the color scheme. I remember associating the Democratic party with the Communist party back when they were the Red states which is probably why they got the Blue color today.
About campaign finance reform? The Court ruled that money is speech in campaigns so the government shouldn't be restricting the flow of it at all. The reason liberals want campaign finance reform is so that they can control speech -- see another control issue. They loved the way it was in the past when the Dems got all the Union money but tightly controlled how money flowed to the Republican party. Any campaign finance reform laws never applied to the Democrat's main flow of money. The Dems are very good a naming laws so that they sound good but really mean the opposite of what they are titled -- Affordable Care Act anybody?
Hopefully with the Republicans now in control of both houses of congress things can be put on the right track again. It sounds like the President is about to violate the law yet again via executive order so it wouldn't surprise me if impeachment is in the future. I've lost count of the number of scandals that this guy is involved in that any of which would have forced a conservative President out of office. With a lapdog media on your side, you can get away with anything. I'm not sure why the Democrat party even needs campaign ads with the nightly news can suffice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by detwahDJ
The RW bubble again. Disregard all history, dictionaries, encyclopedias, and get your "information" from Fox, Limbaugh, RW media, and call yourself a true liberal. The teabaggers have thrown in with the republican party and the corporate Right - your choice. Thanks to whatever skewed media you listen to and trust, you are totally unaware of the progressive democratic caucus, what their platform is, and what the traditional roles of the parties are. You parrot all the right-wing shock jocks, yet call yourself "liberal". Democrats support campaign finance reform and repubs - your party - oppose it. Amazing.
So Buffett and Gates support dems while poor repubs are left out in the cold?
The Kochs are extremist wealthy corporate inheritance-baby republican oil barons - and yet you believe they are "grass roots". Fascist societies are right-wing ones.
And oh yeah, let's look at the republican (your party) red states - the poorest, least educated, and the biggest "takers" of taxpayer money. These are the people you "self-sufficient" teabaggers decided to throw in with. Red States Are Welfare Queens - Business Insider
BTW Palin was not destroyed by anybody - she is doing exactly what she wants to do - milk the rubes of their money via the lecture circuit and writing books. Her decision and no one else's.
So many RW extremist points, and seriously, no words for all this disconnect. What is your source of "information"?
I sometimes post political topics on the Michigan board not only because they concern Michigan but because I want to have a real discussion, unlike the venomous invective getting flung around on the Politics board. I think that our shared affection for our state gives us a basis for civil communication even when we disagree about many things. So let's please try to be respectful. I'll refrain from calling Tea Partiers "wingnuts" as I did above (but note that I deliberately avoided the nastier term that their opponents use for them).
I suggest that we drop talk of fascism. The word has been used and abused in so many way that it has lost its meaning.
See also Godwin's Law Reductio ad Hitlerum
Let's stay focused on the shutdown. Is shutting down the government a legitimate tactic, given the damage that it does? That will probably lead us into larger questions about the proper size and scope of government.
I sometimes post political topics on the Michigan board not only because they concern Michigan but because I want to have a real discussion, unlike the venomous invective getting flung around on the Politics board. I think that our shared affection for our state gives us a basis for civil communication even when we disagree about many things. So let's please try to be respectful. I'll refrain from calling Tea Partiers "wingnuts" as I did above (but note that I deliberately avoided the nastier term that their opponents use for them).
I suggest that we drop talk of fascism. The word has been used and abused in so many way that it has lost its meaning.
See also Godwin's Law Reductio ad Hitlerum
Let's stay focused on the shutdown. Is shutting down the government a legitimate tactic, given the damage that it does? That will probably lead us into larger questions about the proper size and scope of government.
Oh, if only that were possible, I'm with you.
BUT - you want to drop the term "fascist" while, in current political rhetoric over recent decades, in the ubiquitous corporate media, "socialist" in reference to liberals and democrats has been in acceptably wide use, and "fascist" not used at all - even with its coined definition of "corporate control of government". Shall we stop using the term "socialist" as well? Seems that, in your opinion, that term has not been abused (I don't agree).
If someone advocates corporate control of government, they are truly fascist, and how else should this reality be expressed - more politely perhaps? OK, even though it has become acceptably polite and "respectful", no more reference as "socialist" (since it's not true anyway) to democrats or other posters here, eh?
BTW, shutting down government as a "legitimate" tactic - for what? Anybody know - other than a way to hold the country's well-being up for ransom for political power as repubs like to do?
Sorry, that's impolite.
You've proven just what you are in your responses here. Do a little research on the history of progressives in this country and the eugenics movement of the early 20th century. The example that everybody thinks of when they hear fascism is that of Nazi Germany -- you know the National Socialist party. They had much more in common with the progressives and socialists in this country than any right-wing party. If you take out the eugenics movement, it's all about government control of every day life. Which party does that sound like in the USA? This is not right-wing stuff.
Most Republicans and Tea Party people just want the government to leave them the hell alone. The goal is to shrink the size of government and reduce the number of working days required just to pay their taxes so you're not put in prison by the IRS. We want to enjoy the freedoms granted by the Constitution which basically states what Government cannot do but it somehow always manages to erode these freedoms. It's very unlikely that an average person in this country can go more than a couple days without being guilty of some crime by just doing their day-to-day activities. The police love this so they can pull you over or stop you at any point in time because you'll be guilty of something. This is mostly because of progressives that want to build a larger and larger nanny state so that the government can control all aspects of society.
With respect to the red state/blue state thing -- which party do you think the folks who are getting government money belong to? Which party do you think is creating the regulation burden where that money is necessary? If the federal government is giving money to the states, it's only so that it can control what they do. That money never comes without strings attached. Also, anybody find it strange that the whole red/blue state thing never changes any more? Back before 2000, the networks used to alternate the color scheme. I remember associating the Democratic party with the Communist party back when they were the Red states which is probably why they got the Blue color today.
About campaign finance reform? The Court ruled that money is speech in campaigns so the government shouldn't be restricting the flow of it at all. The reason liberals want campaign finance reform is so that they can control speech -- see another control issue. They loved the way it was in the past when the Dems got all the Union money but tightly controlled how money flowed to the Republican party. Any campaign finance reform laws never applied to the Democrat's main flow of money. The Dems are very good a naming laws so that they sound good but really mean the opposite of what they are titled -- Affordable Care Act anybody?
Hopefully with the Republicans now in control of both houses of congress things can be put on the right track again. It sounds like the President is about to violate the law yet again via executive order so it wouldn't surprise me if impeachment is in the future. I've lost count of the number of scandals that this guy is involved in that any of which would have forced a conservative President out of office. With a lapdog media on your side, you can get away with anything. I'm not sure why the Democrat party even needs campaign ads with the nightly news can suffice.
No clue eh? Zero! Don't know what fascism is? You have lost what freedoms?? The Jim Crow Democratic Party "communist"? The red states during Jim Crow "leftist"? Dems getting union money? Pesky regulations a burden on you (you don't even know what they are)? The corporate-owned nightly news "liberal"? Pretty amazing.
Since you are a "states rights" right-winger, you should know that the police you dislike for stopping you are locally employed! BTW how often do you get unfairly stopped? Really interesting to know that....
BTW, I'm guessing you approve of government shutdowns as long as only repubs do it. Am I mistaken? Please explain how the country benefitted from the last one.
Oh, if only that were possible, I'm with you.
BUT - you want to drop the term "fascist" while, in current political rhetoric over recent decades, in the ubiquitous corporate media, "socialist" in reference to liberals and democrats has been in acceptably wide use, and "fascist" not used at all - even with its coined definition of "corporate control of government". Shall we stop using the term "socialist" as well? Seems that, in your opinion, that term has not been abused (I don't agree).
If someone advocates corporate control of government, they are truly fascist, and how else should this reality be expressed - more politely perhaps? OK, even though it has become acceptably polite and "respectful", no more reference as "socialist" (since it's not true anyway) to democrats or other posters here, eh?
BTW, shutting down government as a "legitimate" tactic - for what? Anybody know - other than a way to hold the country's well-being up for ransom for political power as repubs like to do?
Sorry, that's impolite.
Not sure we completely understand each other. In my opinion, the term "socialist" HAS been abused -- calling Obama a socialist for mandating that people buy insurance (mostly from private for-profit companies), which I mentioned in an earlier post, is an example of such abuse. Nevertheless, despite the efforts of Fox News et al., the word has not lost its meaning (briefly, state ownership of industry), and people who know what the word means know that ACA is not socialist. This is not true of fascism. Regardless of what Mussolini said, the definition of fascism you propose is not nearly as widely accepted as the definition of socialism, perhaps because there are existing governments and mainstream parties in the world today that embrace some degree of socialism and proudly accept the appellation, while nobody but the most extreme groups currently accept the label of fascism, and even in fascism's heyday there was not a clear consensus about what exactly it meant. These are facts of usage, for better or worse. It's not a matter of reciprocal politeness (we won't call you fascist if you don't call us socialist). In practice, "fascist" has become little more than a nearly meaningless term of abuse for whatever the speaker or writer strongly opposes. If you want to talk about corporate control of government, it may be better to just type the extra keystrokes and say, "corporate control of government".
And it should be clear that I do NOT think that shutting down the gov't is a legitimate tactic -- that's the whole reason I started this thread! But evidently some people do, so I am inviting them to justify it if they can.
Last edited by tuebor; 11-06-2014 at 08:51 PM..
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