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Old 11-17-2014, 08:17 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,776,432 times
Reputation: 3920

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Quote:
Originally Posted by impala096 View Post
Ohio is a good comparison. According to the American Petroleum Institute, Ohio drivers are taxed 46.4 cents on a gallon of gas while Michigan drivers are taxed 57.4 cents. How much of the money actually ends up back in transportation?

Ohio = 46.4 cents of 46.4 cents (100%)
Michigan = 37.4 cents of 57.4 cents (65%)

Ohio drivers are taxed 11 cents less yet their per-capita funding for highway construction and repairs is 39% higher than Michigan ($154 in Michigan vs. $214 in Ohio).
Source?

Never mind, found it. Ohio's fuel tax is way higher than Michigan's: 46.4 cents vs 37.5 cents. That explains the difference in why they have more spending per capita.

I finally figured out how people are twisting this whole debate. So typical.

The figure that a lot of people are using for Michigan's rate includes SALES TAX. You buy a pack of aspirin and windshield wiper fluid at a gas station, it gets a sales tax that goes into the Michigan general fund. Same with the gas you buy: 6% sales tax. Same with a shirt, same with a ferby and Taylor Swift's new album at Walmart. Should those purchases go toward fixing roads too?

And here is the ultimate solution to all this: The House can make gasoline exempt from the Michigan 6% sales tax (phase it out over the 4 years that the new tax will be implemented), and replace that with this gas fuel tax that the Senate passed. It equals out the same (we'll still be 6th highest), but it increases funding for roads and follows the Michigan constitution (sales tax has to go to schools and local governments per the constitution, fuel tax has to go to roads and bridges per Act 51).

Voila! It will mean reduced revenue for the State general fund, but I'm sure the Republican led legislature next year can figure that out. And state revenues continue to climb with the recovering economy.

Michigan's sales tax revenues have appeared to have doubled since 2009:

http://ballotpedia.org/Michigan_state_budget

Last edited by magellan; 11-17-2014 at 09:00 AM..
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Old 11-17-2014, 08:51 AM
 
497 posts, read 550,146 times
Reputation: 704
The fact of the matter is Michigan drivers are taxed 57.4 cents on a gallon of gas and Ohio drivers are taxed only 46.4 cents (with all taxes considered). Nothing is being twisted there.

Consider an extreme scenario where Michigan drivers are taxed $3 dollars on a gallon of gas but only 19 cents actually go to fixing the roads. Drivers in other states are taxed 40 cents but the full 40 cents goes towards fixing the roads. In this scenario, should Michigan raise the gas tax by 21 cents (to be in line with the transportation funding of other states) or should they look at changing how the taxes at the pump get divided up?
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Old 11-17-2014, 09:45 AM
 
497 posts, read 550,146 times
Reputation: 704
Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
And here is the ultimate solution to all this: The House can make gasoline exempt from the Michigan 6% sales tax (phase it out over the 4 years that the new tax will be implemented), and replace that with this gas fuel tax that the Senate passed. It equals out the same (we'll still be 6th highest), but it increases funding for roads and follows the Michigan constitution (sales tax has to go to schools and local governments per the constitution, fuel tax has to go to roads and bridges per Act 51).

Voila! It will mean reduced revenue for the State general fund, but I'm sure the Republican led legislature next year can figure that out. And state revenues continue to climb with the recovering economy.
I like this solution! Why doesn't this ever get discussed?
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Old 11-17-2014, 10:40 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,882 posts, read 19,776,432 times
Reputation: 3920
Quote:
Originally Posted by impala096 View Post
The fact of the matter is Michigan drivers are taxed 57.4 cents on a gallon of gas and Ohio drivers are taxed only 46.4 cents (with all taxes considered). Nothing is being twisted there.

Consider an extreme scenario where Michigan drivers are taxed $3 dollars on a gallon of gas but only 19 cents actually go to fixing the roads. Drivers in other states are taxed 40 cents but the full 40 cents goes towards fixing the roads. In this scenario, should Michigan raise the gas tax by 21 cents (to be in line with the transportation funding of other states) or should they look at changing how the taxes at the pump get divided up?

The sales tax we pay on gas cannot be used for roads, so gas should be exempted from the sales tax. You can't count that whole 57 cents and use it as a comparison with Ohio. It's apples to oranges.

The better comparison is 37 cents to Ohio's 46 cents. That's why they get more money for roads.

I'm really surprised this hasn't been pointed out earlier by the media. Maybe because it is pretty damn confusing and people have short attention spans? Not you I mean consumers of news in general.

What probably scares people is cuts to sales tax means cuts to education and municipalities. Initially anyway, but it could be phased out while overall sales tax revenues grow.

The state successfully exempted prescription drugs and groceries and the world didn't end.
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Old 11-17-2014, 11:45 AM
 
7,072 posts, read 9,547,379 times
Reputation: 4531
Quote:
Originally Posted by teachbeach View Post
Along the same line, why can't we fix roads with a better material? There are other states and countries with the weather conditions like or worse than ours and their roads don't seem to break down as quickly as they do here. It seems to me that we should be looking at different surface composites that can handle the weather; water, snow, heat, freezing, frost. Instead of "patch, patch, patch" let's go back and spend the money and do it correctly so we aren't having to go back and redo it 2 years later.

That is a very good question. M14 in Plymouth was repaved several years ago and now is so full of potholes that drivers swerve into other lanes dodging the craters. Also, Mound road between 12 and 14 mile was repaired last year at this time and now the potholes are already coming back after only 1 year.
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Old 11-17-2014, 02:53 PM
 
Location: Michigan
4,647 posts, read 8,549,982 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ram2 View Post
That is a very good question. M14 in Plymouth was repaved several years ago and now is so full of potholes that drivers swerve into other lanes dodging the craters. Also, Mound road between 12 and 14 mile was repaired last year at this time and now the potholes are already coming back after only 1 year.
I'm pretty sure Mound wasn't repaved. They do the patch work style of replacing sections of the road instead of repaving it completely. It's like a band-aid job.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:46 AM
 
1,433 posts, read 2,970,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driller1 View Post
Plenty.

I have been pulled over three times.
Then it must be true lol.
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Old 11-18-2014, 09:49 AM
 
1,433 posts, read 2,970,755 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by animatedmartian View Post
If Michigan is providing a tax break to the transportation industry then it's doing a bad job at putting more trucks on our roads.
Huh? What's the map prove?
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Old 11-18-2014, 10:03 AM
 
Location: Michigan
4,647 posts, read 8,549,982 times
Reputation: 3775
Quote:
Originally Posted by actinic View Post
Huh? What's the map prove?
Next door states have many more of their roads being used by heavy truck traffic. Michigan hardly gets any truck traffic north of I-94. Michigan then shouldn't have to do as much maintenance as next door states, no?
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Old 11-18-2014, 10:14 AM
 
1,433 posts, read 2,970,755 times
Reputation: 889
Slice the stats anyway you want but the 6th highest in the country for the road conditions we put up with? Something's wrong and I believe it starts with all the trucks that simply aren't paying their proportionate share of the burden.

Michigan allows a heavier truck while other states don't, correct?

Compare the weight of a typical passenger vehicle vs the typical weight of a 44 wheel truck. What's the ratio, 1 to 20 or more? That truck is also on the road 20x more. While the gas tax captures some of the increased mileage there should be a 'weight' tax at least 10x more for trucks than cars ... and I'm being generous.

To those who might say you can't tax the truck industry too much (as it would raise the price of goods sold) I say it's already being passed along to the public.
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