[Kingsnkali]

The way things are going, our next President will be campaigning on a Chicken in Every Pot. The whole economy is just a mountain of debt. Foreigners are tired of paying for our out of control spending. They are losing much more money in currency devaluation vs the interest we pay them to hold our debt. This spend till you drop cycle of the American consumer and government is coming to a rapid end.

Sate and local municipal bonds will be the next time bomb to blow up in our face. They are about to lose their insurance that backed up the bonds in case of default. You see, those same bond guarantee companies (that allowed these bonds to have AAA investment rating) also guaranteed multi billions of the sub-prime loans by banks, investment houses and hedge funds! It just gets worse from here. And I'm not normally a bearish type person. The trillions in home loans taken out in the last 5 years during this mega mania real estate bubble are going to be facing some major resetting in value and collateral.

I live in Northern California and our real estate values have dropped 20% just in the past year (Sacramento County). Some areas look like ghost towns of foreclosures. No one can sell their homes. Buyers are afraid to buy and even if they could, the banks have tightened so much that the system is almost at a standstill. Now credit is incredibly hard to get. This will just make the death spiral continue downward. I see a deflationary time ahead. Meanwhile, The Fed is still on "inflation watch". That's great! We won't have to worry about inflation. We won't have to worry about the price of gas. We WILL have to worry about losing our jobs and losing our homes though. Deflation is a nasty animal. Think 1930's. Of course, maybe it won't be so bad because 90% of what we buy comes from China anyway!

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Kingsnkali

The way things are going, our next President will be campaigning on a Chicken in Every Pot. The whole economy is just a mountain of debt. Foreigners are tired of paying for our out of control spending. They are losing much more money in currency devaluation vs the interest we pay them to hold our debt. This spend till you drop cycle of the American consumer and government is coming to a rapid end.

Sate and local municipal bonds will be the next time bomb to blow up in our face. They are about to lose their insurance that backed up the bonds in case of default. You see, those same bond guarantee companies (that allowed these bonds to have AAA investment rating) also guaranteed multi billions of the sub-prime loans by banks, investment houses and hedge funds! It just gets worse from here. And I'm not normally a bearish type person. The trillions in home loans taken out in the last 5 years during this mega mania real estate bubble are going to be facing some major resetting in value and collateral.

I live in Northern California and our real estate values have dropped 20% just in the past year (Sacramento County). Some areas look like ghost towns of foreclosures. No one can sell their homes. Buyers are afraid to buy and even if they could, the banks have tightened so much that the system is almost at a standstill. Now credit is incredibly hard to get. This will just make the death spiral continue downward. I see a deflationary time ahead. Meanwhile, The Fed is still on "inflation watch". That's great! We won't have to worry about inflation. We won't have to worry about the price of gas. We WILL have to worry about losing our jobs and losing our homes though. Deflation is a nasty animal. Think 1930's. Of course, maybe it won't be so bad because 90% of what we buy comes from China anyway!

What you describe , was explained quite well last nite on CNBC , on Kramer's show. he has it right. The fix, only temporary in my mind , but better than what the Bush deal is proposing , might work. The Government will have to take over the defaulting insurance companies , with an infusion of cash , and , I mean now , not in two weeks. Look for Tuesday to be the day of a 2000 drop in the market, if something is not done on Monday. I which I had a crystal ball............

[oldcrowman]

Well, I can tell you I saw this comming for the last 5 years.
No one and many here just want to be the glass half full people.
That is fine but not always living in reality.
Michigan is going to go through some very hard times that in my opinion will rival the great depresion.
I am sure there were many in 29 that said that any one who said things are going to get bad was an idiot.
I feel sorry for any one who ownes real estate in Michigan. The whole country really is going to hurt or is hurting.
The water is already coming down the vally, nothing can be done but hold on now.
The only thing you can do is not get cought up in spending.
Dont buy things you not only many not be able to afford but no one needs, Like blue ray. another soloution to a nonproblem.
Dont go out to movies and give them inflated 9$ for a film that is crap.
Dont buy a new car, buy good used.
Learn why your grandma and pa saved string and old news papers.
The last 30 years has become a instant gratification generation.
I have always said, how long can we sustain unrestraind growth,in population,and in the economy?
We live on a planet with a limited amout of resources and we act like it is some magic place that replaces what you use as soon as you use it.
I guess we need to have a hard lesson once in a while to smack us back into reality.

[malamute]

Originally Posted by oldcrowman

Well, I can tell you I saw this comming for the last 5 years.
No one and many here just want to be the glass half full people.
That is fine but not always living in reality.
Michigan is going to go through some very hard times that in my opinion will rival the great depresion.
I am sure there were many in 29 that said that any one who said things are going to get bad was an idiot.
I feel sorry for any one who ownes real estate in Michigan. The whole country really is going to hurt or is hurting.
The water is already coming down the vally, nothing can be done but hold on now.
The only thing you can do is not get cought up in spending.
Dont buy things you not only many not be able to afford but no one needs, Like blue ray. another soloution to a nonproblem.
Dont go out to movies and give them inflated 9$ for a film that is crap.
Dont buy a new car, buy good used.
Learn why your grandma and pa saved string and old news papers.
The last 30 years has become a instant gratification generation.
I have always said, how long can we sustain unrestraind growth,in population,and in the economy?
We live on a planet with a limited amout of resources and we act like it is some magic place that replaces what you use as soon as you use it.
I guess we need to have a hard lesson once in a while to smack us back into reality.

And the problem is -- all that saving here and there further hurts the economy because it's all been about people spending, people using credit cards to spend and people buying cheaply built but very expensive houses made with illegal labor. And enormous population growth in the last couple of decades to keep the spending going.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by malamute

And the problem is -- all that saving here and there further hurts the economy because it's all been about people spending, people using credit cards to spend and people buying cheaply built but very expensive houses made with illegal labor. And enormous population growth in the last couple of decades to keep the spending going.

So true........... its the American living beyond their means...on credit cards, no savings. ( have you noticed all the payday lending places going up on every corner ? )......... When the credit cards got maxed out , they took out a " home improvement load" on their house, to pay off the credit cards. Worst thing anyone can ever do ! The interest rate for these second mortgage juice loans is sometimes 3 times higher than introductory new credit card deals , that keep coming in everyones mail box............. Now , people have a subprime , a juice second , and a house thats going down in value 10 percent a week !...... They have no choice but to walk ........ I wonder , does the credit card people still have a claim for the unpaid balance after the foreclosures ?........... many of the mortgage brokers , and banks , sold the deals to people who have also defaulted , or will default in the coming months............ We could be in for an interesting ride........... buy wheelbarrows , cause thats what you will need to haul the money to the store for a loaf of bread and a gallon of milk..........

[Ishten]

I left Michigan in 2005 when I saw the writing on the wall. Unofrtunately, it appears that the economic condition will extend past Michigan and reach into the south, specifically Florida. I have come to realize that there is nowhere to run - everything can be produced somewhere else cheaper. Sure, I can provide services to you and make a commission selling a product to you - but where is your money coming from? Selling something to someone else and/or providing a service to them. It is economically incestuous and cannot be sustained.

Look around your community. Where are people working? Home Depot, BK, insurance agency, government job, hospital, prison, etc. When the government jobs are the 'good jobs' you know you're heading for trouble.

I do not want to be negative - please tell me what the US can do to bring money into the United States. Thank you.

[darstar]

Originally Posted by Ishten

I left Michigan in 2005 when I saw the writing on the wall. Unofrtunately, it appears that the economic condition will extend past Michigan and reach into the south, specifically Florida. I have come to realize that there is nowhere to run - everything can be produced somewhere else cheaper. Sure, I can provide services to you and make a commission selling a product to you - but where is your money coming from? Selling something to someone else and/or providing a service to them. It is economically incestuous and cannot be sustained.

Look around your community. Where are people working? Home Depot, BK, insurance agency, government job, hospital, prison, etc. When the government jobs are the 'good jobs' you know you're heading for trouble.

I do not want to be negative - please tell me what the US can do to bring money into the United States. Thank you.

We need to balance our trade policy. Bring , " made in America something to be proud of again " We are in a free fall, watch the stock market tomorrow, you will see how bad things really are......... For one thing , you can do , is stop going to Walmart , they are so big , that they control the retail market., and , with almost everything made in China. If everyone just stopped buying forgiven cheep labor goods made on the backs of 6 year old slave labor, things would change over nite !.......Its time for a true Independence day, and , I don't mean the fourth of July.........vote like your life depended on it , cause , IT does...........

[FERRETI]

I am 100% sure that tomorrow the stock market will be bloody and all investors will lose.It is about to crash.

[FERRETI]

Today it was the european and asian markets.