[rotwein]

I am voting NO! This prop does not divide the money, the legislature has to create and pass various new laws or ammendments to try to follow through on the prop. Do you really think the new laws or ammendents will actually be in the interests of all of the people who would vote yes? What this state needs is a prop to limit the legislature to meeting for only 90 days a year and to cut the pay and benefits to what a part-time jobs is worth. Then we may have an effective legislature.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by westernwilly

Unfortunately it does not work that way. Spending less time in your house does not make the shingles on your roof last longer as the weather and the elements will take the same toll. Driving less (short of not driving on roads at all) is not going to make the roads anymore resilient to the freeze and thaw process that Michigan endures every year.

I think people were driving less because of the recession too. I would venture to guess road miles traveled has come back with the recovery. The roads around here seem to be driven more lately.

[dave w]

Originally Posted by westernwilly

Unfortunately it does not work that way. Spending less time in your house does not make the shingles on your roof last longer as the weather and the elements will take the same toll. Driving less (short of not driving on roads at all) is not going to make the roads anymore resilient to the freeze and thaw process that Michigan endures every year.

yes but roads that are traveled less require less maintenance even with the elements.

[animatedmartian]

Maybe in rural areas. In Metro Detroit, all the roads are pretty much full of traffic on any given day. Especially the ones that are still two-lanes and handling more traffic than what they were designed for.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by westernwilly

Unfortunately it does not work that way. Spending less time in your house does not make the shingles on your roof last longer as the weather and the elements will take the same toll. Driving less (short of not driving on roads at all) is not going to make the roads anymore resilient to the freeze and thaw process that Michigan endures every year.

Roads in Indiana and Ohio endure freeze and thaw every year. Why are roads in those states in better condition than roads in Michigan?

[JimmyInGreatLakes]

Originally Posted by magellan

You spend $40,000 - $50,000 on hard retail goods every year? I'd have to piece together my retail receipts but I'm guessing it's about $2500 - $3000, mostly at Lowe's. So $25 - $30 more a year.

We'll have to be resigned to being the highest gas taxed state in the country with the worst roads (it's going to take at least 5 - 8 years to get them anywhere near "good").

No, not that much, I'm guessing more like $25,000-$30,000 (thus the $150 I stated) and that would average out perhaps a car every 3 years. Did you really add up Everything you buy that is taxable? Gas (which is for us about $3,000/annually) will drop the tax but let's not forget increased registration fees among other "revenue enhancements" from this bill. Only 72% of the increased revenue is from Sales Tax. 22% is STILL coming from increased fuel taxes. You figure they plan to raise 2.1 billion annually from this and there are about 3.8 million households in Michigan. That's $550 per household and I'm a pretty typically sized household.

I figure we use about 1000 gallons of gas per year. Add 25 cents to the gas tax and I'm paying another $250 year. If that ALL goes to the roads, I'd be fine with that! Multiply that by the 3.8 million households and we have $950 million extra for roads. And that might possibly be effective immediately. The maximum revenue figures from this proposal don't hit until 2017-2018.

[westernwilly]

Originally Posted by ram2

Roads in Indiana and Ohio endure freeze and thaw every year. Why are roads in those states in better condition than roads in Michigan?

They spend money on them, while Michigan bickers about taxes and dose nothing.

[jackmichigan]

Let's face facts:

If Proposal 1 passes, Michigan will have the second highest state-level sales tax in the country (second to only to California at 7.5%). Raising the sales tax from 6 cents to 7 cents is a 17% increase. NONE of the sales tax increase will go to fund roads. (How did the sales tax increase from 4 to 6% work out?)

Proposal 1 will also give Michigan the second highest fuel excise tax in the country, at 41.7 cents per gallon--up from 15 cents for diesel, and 19 cents for gasoline (second only to Pennsylvania). But Michigan’s rate will increase each and every year thereafter!

Don't forget that there is also an 18.4 cent/gallon federal excise tax on gasoline (24.4 cents/gallon on diesel), which will bring the total fuel excise tax paid in Michigan to 60.1 cents per gallon for gasoline—and 66.1 cents/gallon for diesel. According to Proposal 1, these fuel taxes will automatically increase each year--and we will have no say about it. There is also a good likelihood that the federal fuel tax will be increased as well.

(Note: Among the 50 states, Michigan is presently in the mid-range for fuel excise taxes, with the median being 22 cents/gallon; Michigan is nowhere near the bottom. It is also difficult to make direct comparisons between states because some states include other fees and sales taxes within their excise tax, and some states, including Michigan, add a sales tax on top of the fuel excise tax. Most sales taxes across the country do not go directly to road funding so the most relevant figure to consider, regarding road funding and expenditures, is the dedicated fuel excise tax, commonly referred to as the gas tax.)

I think we can all agree that Michigan needs to pay more attention to maintaining its infrastructure—and that will cost money. But Proposal 1 is not targeted to deal with the issue of road maintenance. It’s a proposal for excessive, multiple tax increases…and it will yield dubious results. (State officials are already trying to reduce expectations, since they know that much of the money will not be used for road maintenance. Their Billion dollar new-construction plans do not mesh well with the need for maintenance.) We need a more modest funding proposal that also reigns in the poor policies and mismanagement of the Michigan Department of Transportation. More than doubling their budget, with no strings attached to the dollars they receive, is a recipe for disaster.

[westboundrambler]

Just legalize Marijuana and take the taxes from that to pay for road repairs. Boom, done. I'll bet that will generate more money in a shorter time than the extra 1% sales tax.

[ram2]

Originally Posted by jackmichigan

Let's face facts:

(How did the sales tax increase from 4 to 6% work out?)

How did the state gas tax increase under Engler work out?