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Old 04-27-2016, 01:19 PM
 
7,358 posts, read 10,991,118 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magellan View Post
This isn't like Fear Factor, where you're drinking toads blood. Is he picking a home at random? Without testing the water? This water could have lead in it. There's no cure for lead once it gets in your bloodstream, dumbass.

There is, but he won't like it.
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Old 04-28-2016, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,787 posts, read 2,405,129 times
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Just so we're clear, we all recognize that the water is probably the 3rd largest contributor to typical blood lead levels of people in Flint, right?

Lead paint is far an away the most significant problem in any old city. This is why you have blood lead levels exceeding 5 ug/dL in 7x more people in old Pennsylvanian cities than you do in Flint. In fact, a child in Flint is less likely to have elevated blood lead levels than a child picked at random from anywhere in Michigan.

After that you have lead in soil issues. We live in a state where background soil lead levels sit at an average of 8,800 ppb. Don't let your kid eat the dirt, because it probably has lead concentrations similar to that of the worst samples obtained from Flint.

Finally you have water, In Flint, of the 642 samples tested this month, 48 came back with results higher than 15 ppb. Filters report they are effective at removing lead levels up to 150 ppb.. The water in Flint is probably about on par with the water in any city served by the DWSD with an aged infrastructure. Great? Probably not. Poisonous? Not typically. People tout these statistics of 13,000 ppb in the water, but the reality is that happened in a handful of homes, that was far from typical. If you went and sampled every tap of every home in Birmingham, you'd probably find a handful of samples with astronomical lead levels.

So.. I get it, this isn't a popular opinion, but are we really freaking out about the right thing? My personal opinion is that we are not. While the efforts being made in Flint are great, we need to make equal or greater efforts at removing the risk to lead paint exposure in old inner-city areas.

The governor isn't drinking water as a "punishment" because as far as he's concerned, water from the typical tap in Flint, chosen at random, is probably safe when filtered (and in most cases, safe when unfiltered too). The governor is drinking the water there as some sort of crappy, misguided PR stunt that is gaining zero traction - compounded by the fact that he then left for Europe, making consumption of Flint water difficult. His goal is to inspire confidence in the water system in Flint, but it's not doing that. The only thing that'll inspire confidence is time and a sincere apology, not the scripted ones his PR teams have presented him with where he instead tries to throw other people under the bus. His consumption of Flint water is meaningless.

Was the water switch a screw up? I believe it was. Was the initial freak-out and response required? Definitely. At this point, are we reacting rationally to this? Oh my God, no. The next person that I see mindlessly demanding all the pipes in Flint need to be replaced is going to cause me to ... well, I'll probably just go get another cup of coffee.
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Old 04-28-2016, 10:56 AM
 
Location: Grosse Ile Michigan
30,293 posts, read 74,885,386 times
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After they freak out and inefficiently replace some random portion of the lead pipes around Flint (replacing all is impossible unless they are going to spend hundreds of millions for the next 40 years), the water will be no cleaner. There will still be lead found in randomly selected houses because they cannot replace all of the lead pipe and lead soldered pipes, and because they cannot replace any of the lead pipes or lead soldered pipes inside the homes or apartments. The real estate values in Flint will remain crashed because no one will believe the problem is solved, and because no one wants to live in flint anymore anyway. The children of Flint will remain behind in school, due to socioeconomic reasons, not because of lead. Basically we will spend a great deal of money to much media fanfare and people who do not understand water systems or education problems will feel better and stop thinking about Flint and maybe turn more attention to bathrooms in megamarkets or some other equally meaningless issue, then more millions will be wasted on whatever the next popular non issue issue is, while the real problems continue unchecked.

Want to help the children of Flint? Forget pipes, spend the money figuring out how to change the culture of poverty.
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Old 04-28-2016, 11:54 AM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,787 posts, read 2,405,129 times
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OMG!! THANK YOU!! You get it!! Seriously, you are my favorite person on this entire board right now.

Money in Flint would be so much better of spent on items such as your education against poverty idea, or on lead paint abatement, or investment in changing the culture of Flint from a declining manufacturing hub to a culturally diverse college town, tearing down obsolete neighborhoods, building functional ones near Downtown, hiring more public service staff so that the police station can be open more than 25 hours per week or so officers can respond to crimes in progress.

But will any of this interest or investment in Flint go toward that? No. Instead we'll focus all our attention on the latest scandal, one that effects a tiny fraction of the people, but gets killer media ratings, and we're going to give way too much attention to that and spend tons of money making sure it's all good, because that's what the general public wants.

The median household income in Flint is 23k, that's almost 10% lower than Detroit. I promise you there will be more people in Flint who suffer from poverty than they do from any other aspect of life in the community. Where's that corporate-owned media outcry? Oh.. right..
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Old 04-29-2016, 05:33 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,884 posts, read 19,022,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coldjensens View Post

Want to help the children of Flint? Forget pipes, spend the money figuring out how to change the culture of poverty.
Poverty is a cultural issue?

Have you ever been through a poverty simulation before? There's at least one non-profit in every city that does one. Ever been through the program?

Or have you ever been homeless before? Lived in your car for a period of time? More than a week?
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Old 04-30-2016, 09:07 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,787 posts, read 2,405,129 times
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I know you weren't addressing me, but personally I grew up with my mother on welfare and subsidized everything and yes I was homeless for a while. We stayed in a motel, but that's pretty homeless. My mother's social worker was able to find her subsidized housing after the motel stint for some stability. As I grew up, I dropped out of high school and began experimenting with substance, because that's what I understood. Poverty sucks. You eat crap food, worry about everything, and neglect things I now think of regular life, such as sleeping for 7 hours or going to the doctor.

One can grow beyond those circumstances though, if they know how to access the social programs that are right for them. When I was 18 an unemployment councilor paid for me to get a GED. Later she helped me sign up for FAFSA and apply to a local community college. Life really took off from there. I don't even remember her name, but I'm sure that without her I'd still live in poverty. I had zero skills when the recession hit, and was only sheltered by college grants and subsidized loans. Instead, today I work a semi-stable field that gives me satisfaction, I pay a moderate amount of taxes and I hope that a few cents of my tax bill can go toward helping someone else in a similar situation. How wonderful would it be to have 10 more full time people like that working in an impoverished community like Flint? The city is full of great people who just feel trapped. The factories closed and some don't know what step to take to make themselves successful.
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Old 05-01-2016, 06:53 AM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,884 posts, read 19,022,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Geo-Aggie View Post
I know you weren't addressing me, but personally I grew up with my mother on welfare and subsidized everything and yes I was homeless for a while. We stayed in a motel, but that's pretty homeless. My mother's social worker was able to find her subsidized housing after the motel stint for some stability. As I grew up, I dropped out of high school and began experimenting with substance, because that's what I understood. Poverty sucks. You eat crap food, worry about everything, and neglect things I now think of regular life, such as sleeping for 7 hours or going to the doctor.

One can grow beyond those circumstances though, if they know how to access the social programs that are right for them. When I was 18 an unemployment councilor paid for me to get a GED. Later she helped me sign up for FAFSA and apply to a local community college. Life really took off from there. I don't even remember her name, but I'm sure that without her I'd still live in poverty. I had zero skills when the recession hit, and was only sheltered by college grants and subsidized loans. Instead, today I work a semi-stable field that gives me satisfaction, I pay a moderate amount of taxes and I hope that a few cents of my tax bill can go toward helping someone else in a similar situation. How wonderful would it be to have 10 more full time people like that working in an impoverished community like Flint? The city is full of great people who just feel trapped. The factories closed and some don't know what step to take to make themselves successful.
I was volunteering at a film festival a couple of years ago and addressing a large group of GRPS high schoolers, inner city kids. I asked them to please turn off their cell phones before it started and a teacher chaperone whispered to me that most of the kids there didnt have cell phones.

People take for granted what they have and think everyone has the same. Families can end up homeless from one car accident, because they can't afford the repairs and their employer isnt on a bus route. It's not a culture, it's a vicious merry go round that is nearly impossible to get off of if youre born into it.

You were one of the lucky few. I too was a lucky one who escaped. So until all of us who have the luxury of spending time talking about this on our devices realize that we are helping to maintain this merry go round that traps others, it's not going to change.

So going back to this snyder publicity stunt, this is all a game to him. But for people who have absolutely nothing, this debacle is very likely a tipping point of the landslide to ruin.
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Old 05-01-2016, 12:55 PM
 
Location: Metro Detroit
1,787 posts, read 2,405,129 times
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And you have my complete agreement on the Snyder business. His "I'ma drinkun yer water! Derp" stunt is doing nothing but giving people an extra reason to laugh at him. I get the misguided reason behind why he's doing it, in the vast majority of cases the water is safe to drink with a filter (and in many homes it's safe even without one) but people don't trust it, and can you blame them? I sure don't.

The problem is some disconnected rich politician in Lansing drinking clean doesn't fix it. Only time and understanding will fix it, Snyder clearly does not understand. Throwing hundreds of millions at the city's water system won't do anything either, but if we have all this money to be throwing around, Flint could sure use some more police officers, social workers or subsidized planned developments.
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Old 05-01-2016, 09:05 PM
 
1,871 posts, read 1,593,019 times
Reputation: 3097
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture_of_poverty
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Old 05-02-2016, 07:30 PM
 
Location: Grand Rapids Metro
8,884 posts, read 19,022,216 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgkeith View Post
That's certainly one "theory."
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