[JoePO]

Originally Posted by magellan

In fact, I think things like the EM law give some voters a reason to be dissatisfied and may get them off their couches and to the polls.

Well, this was sort of my point - was wondering if the "upswing" in EM appointments has stirred up the population a bit to get more involved/active. I suspect it would, but I don't think we know or have seen if this is true.

[mjlo]

Originally Posted by JoePO

Well, this was sort of my point - was wondering if the "upswing" in EM appointments has stirred up the population a bit to get more involved/active. I suspect it would, but I don't think we know or have seen if this is true.

You seem to have an innacurate or outdated perception of the EM Law. It's been around since the mid 80s (Democrat Governor). Jennifer Granholm used it just as much as Rick Snyder has. Currently there are NO cities in the state of Michigan under emergency management by the state. Only a handful of insolvent school districts remain.

You can update your impression of this law and the fact that it's not a just conservative notion here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Financ...cy_in_Michigan

[JoePO]

Originally Posted by mjlo

You seem to have an innacurate or outdated perception of the EM Law. It's been around since the mid 80s (Democrat Governor). Jennifer Granholm used it just as much as Rick Snyder has.

Uhm, no, even your source shows Snyder invoked it 15 out of the 25 times listed in that table, Granholm invoked it less than half as many times (7) as Snyder. It is unarguable that Snyder has made much more use of the EM law than any of his predecessors.

I lived in MI for several years, during the times when almost all of Snyder's EM appointments were in effect (Detroit, BH, Flint, Pontiac), so I have a pretty good perception of both the law and how it was regarded. I recall most of the people who I spoke to about it were quite definitively against it, and for a variety of reasons. So in my experience, Snyder's EM appointments were not well-received or welcomed, and were one of many reasons these people gave for not supping him for re-election.

[mjlo]

Originally Posted by JoePO

Uhm, no, even your source shows Snyder invoked it 15 out of the 25 times listed in that table, Granholm invoked it less than half as many times (7) as Snyder. It is unarguable that Snyder has made much more use of the EM law than any of his predecessors.

You need to re-look at that chart again. What you're seeing are not separate invocations, but rather tenures of different managers under the same invocation. In some cases they are continuations of Granholm appointed EMs, In another was Granholm appointing a continuation from John Engler. A detail that cannot be overlooked is that Rick Snyder was appointing these managers during the worst economic conditions in the states history, which had an immediate impact on the solvency of these municipalities. As economic conditions have improved, so has their been a corresponding decline in the need for them.

I lived in MI for several years, during the times when almost all of Snyder's EM appointments were in effect (Detroit, BH, Flint, Pontiac), so I have a pretty good perception of both the law and how it was regarded. I recall most of the people who I spoke to about it were quite definitively against it, and for a variety of reasons. So in my experience, Snyder's EM appointments were not well-received or welcomed, and were one of many reasons these people gave for not supping him for re-election.

Whether they are well received or not was irrelevant to the point I am making. No sane person would argue that it's not controversial. You seem to have this fixation on the Emergency Manager law as part of your narrative for whether you should or should not move back to Michigan. My point is your narrative does not match the current reality since no city has been under EM since 2015.

[JoePO]

Originally Posted by mjlo

You need to re-look at that chart again. What you're seeing are not separate invocations, but rather tenures of different managers under the same invocation. In some cases they are continuations of Granholm appointed EMs, In another was Granholm appointing a continuation from John Engler. A detail that cannot be overlooked is that Rick Snyder was appointing these managers during the worst economic conditions in the states history, which had an immediate impact on the solvency of these municipalities. As economic conditions have improved, so has their been a corresponding decline in the need for them.



Whether they are well received or not was irrelevant to the point I am making. No sane person would argue that it's not controversial. You seem to have this fixation on the Emergency Manager law as part of your narrative for whether you should or should not move back to Michigan. My point is your narrative does not match the current reality since no city has been under EM since 2015.

My posts were in response to a question that sliverkris brought up... whether or the not EM stuff had any impact on voter turnout or activity. I wondered the same and pointed out that whether a continuation or not, there has been much more EM activity under Snyder than under the past governors, and people I talked to were unhappy about that. You are free to disagree.

You also seem to be confused - I am not now, have never stated I was, and probably ever will be, considering a move back to Michigan, for a host of reasons, (but a governor like Snyder and the republican-dominated legislature would certainly factor among them).

[tjlmama04]

I grew up in a tiny town in sw MI and let me tell you; Conservative hub.

[MZMpac]

Originally Posted by newengland17

The irony of this statement, Ann Arbor is by far the most tolerant place in Michigan.

Tolerant of anything in line with mainstream liberalism, you mean.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by tjlmama04

I grew up in a tiny town in sw MI and let me tell you; Conservative hub.

Are there tiny liberal towns in the U.S.? Maybe Vermont? Aspen?

[Giesela]

Originally Posted by magellan

Are there tiny liberal towns in the U.S.? Maybe Vermont? Aspen?

Almost always college towns but of course there are plenty of conservative college towns too.

[Smiling_salsera]

Originally Posted by magellan

Are there tiny liberal towns in the U.S.? Maybe Vermont? Aspen?

Saugatuck, in SW on the Kalamazoo river, close to Lake Michigan