Welcome to City-Data.com Forum!
U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Michigan
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
View Poll Results: Should prostitution be decriminalized/legalized in Michigan?
Yes 21 56.76%
No 13 35.14%
Unsure / undecided / no opinion 3 8.11%
Voters: 37. You may not vote on this poll

 
 
Old 06-02-2018, 04:40 PM
 
Location: Michigan
790 posts, read 2,311,013 times
Reputation: 928

Advertisements

Apparently June 2 is International Whores Day, and sex workers are gathering in Chicago and elsewhere to agitate for their concerns.

Over the past few years I've seen increasing attention paid to the issue of human trafficking in Michigan. Would decriminalization of prostitution result in less trafficking or more? I've seen opposing arguments from knowledgeable people (including current and former sex workers) about the pros and cons of decriminalization, and I find myself undecided.

Aside from prostitution as it is currently defined by the law, what about other kinds of sex work, like strip clubs? I hear that some clubs in Detroit are de facto brothels, while in other parts of the state, what the letter of the law allows and what is actually enforced varies from place to place. Maybe it would be better to regulate such places as they do in Montreal, where I hear more is legally allowed, but the limits are actually enforced.

Thoughts?

Last edited by tuebor; 06-02-2018 at 04:54 PM..
Quick reply to this message

 
Old 06-02-2018, 05:04 PM
 
7,200 posts, read 4,467,041 times
Reputation: 11725
Agitate?

Yes it should be legalized. If we are worried about trafficking... fight that. Don't criminalize a woman's right to charge for it. The only reason this remains illegal is that men know women would gain a large upper hand if the could charge for it. Right now we give it away.

PS now I have seen everything.. international whores day?
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-04-2018, 08:41 AM
 
Location: North of Canada, but not the Arctic
20,874 posts, read 19,336,057 times
Reputation: 25354
Might as well. We end up paying for it one way or another. Marriage isn’t free either.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2018, 07:42 AM
 
Location: 404
3,006 posts, read 1,472,605 times
Reputation: 2599
Prostitution could be restricted to specific areas or buildings where everyone must show ID to enter, to verify age and consent. We have enough empty buildings. Jailing people on victimless charges is a tremendous expense we can't afford anymore.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-06-2018, 09:57 AM
 
Location: NNJ
15,024 posts, read 9,983,177 times
Reputation: 17139
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuebor View Post
Would decriminalization of prostitution result in less trafficking or more?
This misguided question comes up quite often.

1) Prostitution issue isn't about trafficking. It is about the woman's right over body.
2) Legalization of prostitution is not a silver bullet for the trafficking issue. Sex trafficking is a labor issue not a sex issue. You need to fight trafficking as a labor issue.
3) Human trafficking involves any labor type... not just sex work. They suffer among nanny, restraurants, nail salons, hospitality services etc..

Legalizing would allow victims to come forward. Just like CA decriminalization of child prostitution relying on other laws to prosecute those that assault the minor. However, simply legalizing it won't make trafficking issue go away. We have to actually pursue trafficking specifically... as an illegal/forced labor issue.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2018, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Rural Michigan
6,343 posts, read 14,592,804 times
Reputation: 10548
I could care less what consenting adults do to or with each other. Convoluting “sex trafficking” with prostitution is what is really wrong here. We already have laws that cover forced labor and children. I really don’t think having more grungy “undercover” cops wandering around trying to bust adults for having sex under any circumstances is the answer. “Vice” units are and always have been corrupt, cushy jobs for cops that have no interest in helping the public & who can’t be bothered to shave.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2018, 07:58 AM
 
1,153 posts, read 1,040,038 times
Reputation: 4358
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nattering Heights View Post
Prostitution could be restricted to specific areas or buildings where everyone must show ID to enter, to verify age and consent. We have enough empty buildings. Jailing people on victimless charges is a tremendous expense we can't afford anymore.

Take it further.


By legalizing prostitution you incentivize customers to use the legal method rather than to visit the baddies who are doing the trafficking. By legalizing brothels, for example, you completely eliminate the necessity to have pimps and all the ill effects associated with them. You also undercut the traffickers which means that engaging in that behavior becomes much less profitable.


You could absolutely mandate that brothels make sure their workers are of legal age, are drug tested and STD tested on a weekly basis. You also keep the workers much, much safer, and the customers are safe from robbery and victimization too.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2018, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Rural Michigan
6,343 posts, read 14,592,804 times
Reputation: 10548
If you really look at history with a straightforward eye - the advent of “vice” policing has led to the complete loss of respect for the profession. Cops started *lying* about being cops, and the courts backed them up. They started going “undercover” because it was too hard to catch who they *wanted* to catch without becoming dirtbags themselves. Over a few decades, you end up with cops being freely allowed to lie to people, to wear masks when dealing with protests, to seize more property under color of law than actual thieves do, to put more people in jail than Russia did under Stalin & still somehow we claim to be free. The moral authority to go after prostitution was always based on the things associated with prostitution and not the act itself. It’s only a matter of time before that moral authority is rescinded by the will of those being governed.
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2018, 03:22 PM
 
Location: Michigan
790 posts, read 2,311,013 times
Reputation: 928
Quote:
Originally Posted by usayit View Post
This misguided question comes up quite often.

1) Prostitution issue isn't about trafficking. It is about the woman's right over body.
2) Legalization of prostitution is not a silver bullet for the trafficking issue. Sex trafficking is a labor issue not a sex issue. You need to fight trafficking as a labor issue.
3) Human trafficking involves any labor type... not just sex work. They suffer among nanny, restraurants, nail salons, hospitality services etc..

Legalizing would allow victims to come forward. Just like CA decriminalization of child prostitution relying on other laws to prosecute those that assault the minor. However, simply legalizing it won't make trafficking issue go away. We have to actually pursue trafficking specifically... as an illegal/forced labor issue.
Fair enough, and thank you for clarifying the issues, but I don't know that the question is misguided. We can suppose that 1-3 are true and still ask whether legalizing prostitution would result in less people being forced into prostitution or make it easier for those forced into it to get away from those who exploit them. We can also ask whether prostitution should be decriminalized on other grounds.

I'm not completely sure that #2 gets at the entirety of the issue. Trafficking is a labor issue, but it is not only that. Maybe it is not a sex issue, but it is a human rights issue (slavery) and an organized crime issue.

To another poster: I think the word you want is "conflate".
Quick reply to this message
 
Old 06-09-2018, 03:44 PM
 
Location: NNJ
15,024 posts, read 9,983,177 times
Reputation: 17139
Quote:
Originally Posted by tuebor View Post
Fair enough, and thank you for clarifying the issues, but I don't know that the question is misguided. We can suppose that 1-3 are true and still ask whether legalizing prostitution would result in less people being forced into prostitution or make it easier for those forced into it to get away from those who exploit them. We can also ask whether prostitution should be decriminalized on other grounds.

I'm not completely sure that #2 gets at the entirety of the issue. Trafficking is a labor issue, but it is not only that. Maybe it is not a sex issue, but it is a human rights issue (slavery) and an organized crime issue.

To another poster: I think the word you want is "conflate".
The question is misguided because it leads discussions down the wrong path... that sex trafficking in of itself is only a sex/moral issue. It avoids the larger picture of forced labor.

Human rights is an all encompassing topic for which labor is a part of.... Stating that the issue is a labor issue implies human rights to freedom of choice and not to be enslaved..

Legalizing prostitution in of itself will NOT result in less people forced in prostitution. Let me approach it differently. The following PDF has a list of some very common forms of human trafficking

https://www.acf.hhs.gov/sites/defaul...rafficking.pdf

Prostitution and escort services;
 Pornography, stripping, or exotic dancing;
 Massage parlors;
Sexual services publicized on the Internet or in newspapers;
 Agricultural or ranch work;
 Factory work or sweatshops;
 Businesses like hotels, nail salons or home-cleaning services;
 Domestic labor (cleaning, childcare, eldercare, etc. within a home);
 Restaurants, bars, or cantinas; or
 Begging, street peddling, or door-to-door sales.

Now consider the items that I did ~not~ bold. Those are all forms of LEGAL labor. LEGAL labor but human trafficking still exists in those labor types. Of all those types of labor, legal labor, there still exists an element of human trafficking. So if we were to simply legalize the two items that I did bold, and nothing else, the same would also happen... you would have LEGAL prostitution within still exists an element of human trafficking.

With that said, legalization does improve and aid authorities in discovering and prosecuting of human trafficking cases. Victims are no longer treated as criminals. People are more likely to come forward and report possible cases of human trafficking.

Some of the most accurate/effective reports and information regarding forced prostitution and child prostitution comes from the prostitutes and johns themselves. The "community" is just as concerned, especially for children. These are people too... parents as well.... they know that no one.. absolutely no one.... benefits from sex trafficking and children trafficking of any form. The community of sex workers, those who engage in it as consenting adults, get the brunt of the criticism for things that are no way in their control. They are hesitant to cooperate with authorities because of the threat of legal jeopardy AND the threat of tried in the court of public opinion. An effective way is to bring the whole community of sex workers under the same umbrella of protection that we all are privy too.... to bring the community closer to police rather than away... underground. That would be one step towards reducing sex trafficking.

Legalization isn't enough.

Also.... whenever discussions around human trafficking occur... here or even in government. We only discuss sex trafficking. That in of itself ignores all the other victims that have a miserable existence... some right under our noses.... in restaurants, hotels, agriculture, nail salons, and nanny services. The lack of public awareness, that trafficking impacts many labor types, is also contributing to the overall problem.


That same ignorance/unawareness of the true core problems of human trafficking has resulted in FOSTA-SESTA passage... legislature that actually drives things underground (off of the internet) and makes it even more difficult to track. Since simply sharing sex work related information is now illegal on US servers, less channels of communications exist between the sex workers and police authorities. There is now a deeper mistrust.... even among those that simply hosted a website.


As for the question itself presented in this thread. There is a middle ground that exists. One such compromise is to decriminalize the selling of sex but to keep the purchase or solicitation of sex from the consumer side illegal. I would be ok with that measure as much of my personal concern lies with the prostitute's rights/safety.

Last edited by usayit; 06-09-2018 at 04:29 PM..
Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Settings
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2020 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Michigan
Similar Threads
View detailed profiles of:

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2024, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top