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I've posted here a number of times when I received a job offer and thought we might actually relocate, but it hasn't happened yet. We live in NYC and have since we were married 14 years ago. I received a unique job offer in Michigan near my hometown, a small community in Southwest Michigan. It's a sizable offer with a lot of incentives, and more than I earn here. Sounds like it could make sense for us.
We have our four kids (6-11) in a good school. While we earn a lot of money and are generally comfortable, it's never enough here. I'm looking down the road a couple of years when my 6th grader will go to high school. If we stay in NYC, it will likely be private and anywhere from $20-45k per year. Then there are the other three behind him. And then I want to be able to pay for their college. While we have a good savings account for this, it won't be enough to fund all of that education and I don't know if we can get there.
The kids are in a lot of activities, have good friends, and are developing deep bonds to their school. They don't have enough room here--all share one big bedroom in bunk beds. My wife has a job she doesn't like very much but does a number of creative activities on the side that could be lucrative if she was able to spend more time on those.
Here are the drawbacks. My wife doesn't like my parents (both in late 70s) and we'd be moving to within an hour of them. The towns near the job are pretty small and I can't figure out if the schools are any good, or how they compare to our good schools here. Many of the kids activities would be curtailed. Small town living might be weird for my wife, who is originally from a small Midwest town, but does not like to drive and enjoys walking everywhere. We wouldn't know anyone and we would need to unwind the pretty good lives we built in NYC for ourselves and the kids.
Here are the benefits. My wife could stay home and do the work she loves instead of going into the tv studio every day. We could buy a nice house (but where?) and school would either be public or lower cost private. Kids could see their grandparents and cousins more often. We could go to the beach and sail like I did growing up. More space, a yard, and a chance to exhale a little bit because NYC is a pressure cooker. The kids could ride their bikes and play basketball in the driveway. It also gets my wife closer to her Indiana relatives and family farm that she loves.
My wife is reluctant but feels like perhaps we should do this because of the financial aspect. She also wants the kids to have a place to call home besides a modest apartment in Manhattan.
I think we should not do it because my wife will be miserable and the rest of us will end up following her lead.
Let me hear from those who may have gone through this. Thanks.
I've never lived in NYC but have lived for decades in Michigan, three years of them in Kalamazoo. From a money perspective it makes a lot of sense to move to Michigan. Much lower cost of living and more open space.
I liked Michigan a lot, except for the long cold cloudy winters. But I think NYC winters are similar. The Great Lakes are truly great. Plenty of nice beaches and good midsized towns like Grand Rapids and Kalamazoo.
My husband and I left N.J. and moved to PA for the same reason. It was a struggle, mostly because we left really great friends and a support system. However of we stayed we would have never been able to afford private high schools.
I think we should not do it because my wife will be miserable and the rest of us will end up following her lead.
Let me hear from those who may have gone through this. Thanks.
Many people work in NYC and don't live in NYC, they live in NJ and CT. The prices of homes are lower and the school systems are very good and there is no need to have your kids in private school.
If your wife is unhappy, you are going to be unhappy and very soon, so that's the biggest reason not to do it.
The financial part of this is a major consideration, but when you move from a very large employment market to a a much smaller one, you are kind of stuck because you have far fewer good quality opportunities. Let's think about one possible situation. You move to MI, buy a house and do all the things you want to do. Then six months there, the company is merged with another and have a layoff, and you are out of a job. Yes, you have great skills and all that, but what is the labor market like there for what you want to do? My point is, if I had to be out of work looking for a job, I'm rather be in the much larger labor market than in the much smaller one. Also, the employers that move you there, they know they got you, and after the first year the raise isn't as big as you expected or the bonus. But they know you uprooted your life to move there, so you aren't going to so easily quit and take another job, and certainly not going to relocate your entire family again.
You could also look for a job in either NJ or CT and move even closer there and not live in NYC.
Greatschools.com is a decent site to get school reviews.
It's kind of hard to know what towns you are looking at if you don't name them though. It would also help people tell you the reps of the school districts. For me, as someone who grew up in Kalamazoo and still has ties to the area, it would be helpful.
If you end up close to Grand Rapids/Kalamazoo, then I think you'd be pleasantly surprised how many activities are in the area for kids/families.
The thing that's going to be hardest for you is that your wife doesn't like to drive and SW Michigan has very limited bus service in the cities.
Also, as someone who ended up moving to a smaller town not knowing a soul, once your kids get involved with school/activities - you meet people.
One of the reasons why I chose the church that I did is because it's in our little town and not in a bigger community - a lot of the same kids/families from school go to the local church (because it's the one Catholic parish in town).
Also, something to consider, just because you live close to family doesn't mean you actually see them all the time. When I moved out to Detroit, I thought I'd see my Detroit friends a lot more often than I actually did.
Life gets busy. If the parents aren't very mobile, then how often are you really going to see them? It's one thing if they are still active (and/or busy-bodies), but another if they are in some kind of care or sickly.
My family is down 94 an hour and half away and we've gone years w/out visiting.
Also, something to consider, if your town is far enough West on 94, then it isn't much of a stretch to look at Chicago for work if for some reason you end up getting laid off.
Again, it depends on what town you end up in - if you are closer to Grand Rapids (which has been booming!) or if you are closer to Kalamazoo or closer to Indiana.
My husband is like the poster above. He won't consider any market smaller than the Metro Detroit area, but there are also remote working situations (again, depending on your field.) And neither of us are interested in living close to my family because we'd be miserable because of proximity (and they don't seem to understand personal boundaries).
Still, I can understand being anxious about moving to another state and undoing the connections you already have. Community is important and you don't just build that overnight. The kids (and you) have friends. You have your doctors/schools/friends/babysitters sorted out for the most part. You know what restaurants/shops you like and have the best deals/products.....it's a huge change and effort to rebuild that in another area.
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm originally from South Haven and we would be seeking to live in Holland (preferably) or perhaps Grand Rapids or Saugatuck or even Grand Haven. My wife likes downtown Holland and feels that it's a solid community and if we could live near the downtown, she could get some of the walkability she likes. We're Catholic, not Dutch Reformed, but I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make living over there. But the schools...that's where I'm at a loss.
I am perhaps being too nostalgic on this because I hope to give my own family some of what I had growing up in SH--easy lake access and the activities and lifestyle that go along with that. That's why I'm not inclined to move to GR, though that probably makes the most sense on paper.
The job market does concern me. I do something specific and I'm at a senior level so there aren't dozens or even a handful of jobs in SW MI that would fit the bill. I'm 46 and I feel somewhat confident that I have a long career ahead of me. I watched my dad go through a layoff in SW MI in his mid-50s and it took him a year to find something that apparently paid about 2/3 of what he was making previously.
Right, we could make friends along the way and I'm not too concerned about that for the kids or myself, but more for my wife. Also right, it's not like my parents would be dropping in unannounced or that we'd be visiting multiple times per week.
We're going to talk about it this weekend and make a final decision. My head says "go" but my heart says "stay".
Having had a similar move over twenty years ago, I can say that it's only worth it if it's what you BOTH want. Don't make any move without being certain that you are both on the same page. That way there will be less stress and hopefully no finger-pointing! We moved from Western NY with three kids of similar ages to yours. The weather here is less snowy than WNY, but it gets colder. We are in the Detroit area. As you likely know, life is vastly different in most communities than in Manhattan. You will all most likely enjoy living in a house with more private spaces. There is little mass transit available, but lots of room for kids to play. Adjustment is going to take time and patience, and both of you have to be adventurous and flexible enough to make the most of a new living situation. There are plenty of communities with good schools, and some sources are listed in posts above.
As for your parents, that's a whole different thread subject. They can probably be dealt with in a way that is comfortable for you and your wife, if you utilize enough effort and very good communication skills.
We moved from Orange County Ca in part for the same reasons. There is never enough money no matter where you are, but some things are better, some not as good.
We live in a huge 1836 house on the water (6 Br. 4 ba). Our house would have cost around $8 million in OC. Here it is about $500,000.
We live in the safest community in Michigan with some of the best schools. In California we could not afford the super safe communities with good schools, and by the time we could, we did not want to live in them (tiny yards, boring soulless communities that are an endless sea of conformity etc). So private schools and charter schools were he way to go. When we realize we would have three kids in private school at once and two in not free charter school, we realized we had to move. We looked at moving to the towns with good public schools in Orange County, but intensely disliked all of them, plus we would have had to downsize in a big way.
In California our kids could play: 1. In a huge paved parking lot a block away that was empty on weekends; 2. In a park if we drove them there and stayed with them and if they had an appointment to meet friends there; 3. At a friend's house with an appointment and usually if we drove them there. If our older kids went for a walk anywhere, even in our neighborhood, we made them bring two way radios and our giant mastiffs, and told them not to talk to anyone. In Michigan by contrast they roamed at will with the only rules being "Do not leave the island without permission from us" and "Be back by dark or call and let us know where you will be" They played in forests, fields, streams, rivers, and lakes. If they got hungry or thirsty, they went into a nearby house and found something to eat or drink. Anywhere within ten miles there was always a family they knew nearby and if they were not home, it was no problem to just go in and grab a snack or a glass of water (no one locks their doors), at least with most families they knew. The moral atmosphere in the schools was 100% better (Still have issues, but a tiny fraction of the level of issues in California). Many of the smaller communities all over Michigan are simlar. Very safe, very open, people look out for each other and especially for each others kids. If your kids misbehave anywhere and in any way, you will hear about it immediately and often (kids tend to hate this).
The overall lifestyle is more laid back. Less over-scheduled, less hypercompetitive, less rush rush rush rush and always being late. We may not do as much as we did (hard to say) but it is all more relaxed. Not perfect in this way, but much better.
Colleges. We have three research universities, five great regional colleges, a ton of highly regarded and well ranked smaller and private colleges. For a state of something like 8 million people there are an outrageous number of college opportunities. And if you miss New Yorkers, they provide a substantial part of the student body at University of Michigan (where they pay something like $30 or $50 k for out of state tuition compared to your 18K (numbers are ballpark, I do not recall actual numbers). U-M by the way is the 4th ranked public school in the country.
Natural beauty. You have it too in upstate New York. For us it is closer in time and more exclusive (and arguably more beautiful, but that is subjective). The west side of the State is amazing and has some of the prettiest beaches in the country.
Water. You are always within a mile or so of a significant lake, river stream or pond.
You can visit Grand Rpids, Detroit and Ann Arbor (also Chicago) all awesome cities and great places for a weekend getaway.
There is comparatively little traffic, especially if you live in the less popular areas.
Michigan is one of the safest places in the world as far as disasters. We do not normally have earthquakes, hurricanes, wildfires, significant flooding, mudslides, sinkholes. We have very rare tornadoes. We are not an appealing target for terrorism. We have had some very small earthquakes rarely, a bit of flooding, but limited in scope and severity, windy days, but nothing really devastating. Compared to most places the threat level is extremely low. Our biggest threat is the possibility of a Canadian invasion. If that does happen, they will be very polite and apologetic while invading.
When you say you are from Mchigan, people assume Detroit, and immediately think you are a badass and strive desperately to not offend you. It can be nice.
Cars. Every kind from every maker of every year. You will find them here like no other place.
The downsides:
Sunshine? What is that?
Truly nice restaurants are here, but they are fewer and far between. Instead of 250 great options within 5 miles, we have more like 15 - 20 great options within 45 miles.
Economy is not as strong.
People do not move around all the time. A lot of people grew up together and stayed put. They have known each other for 20 - 50 years and are not really looking for new friends. They are friendly enough and will drop everything to help you out in a pinch, but there is a difference between friendly and friends. It can take years to get "in" to social circles around here and you mostly get accepted by demonstrating that you are dedicated and a hard worker as well as a niceand trustworthy person.
It is very segregated everyone has their place. Whites go here, blacks there, Hispanics in Mexicantown, Indians (from India) in Canton, Jewish people in Bloomfield or Birmingham, Middle easterners in Dearborn, Polish people over there, etc. On the West side of the State (which is extremely beautiful, especially the beaches), they have a saying "If you ain't Dutch, you ain't much." It is getting better all over and is far less extreme than 40 years ago, but it remains very segregated.
Roads are in terrible condition in the populated parts of the State.
People drive aggressively (even by new York standards).
All of our kids are moving away upon graduation from college so far. Of 5, one may stay here and one is iffy (just a freshman).
Winters are tough. Not the cold and snow, but the endless dark/overcast days. It also seems to last forever. You are probably use to similar in New York,but not as bad as here.
No mass transit to speak of. You are going to drive.
Thanks for your thoughts. I'm originally from South Haven and we would be seeking to live in Holland (preferably) or perhaps Grand Rapids or Saugatuck or even Grand Haven. My wife likes downtown Holland and feels that it's a solid community and if we could live near the downtown, she could get some of the walkability she likes. We're Catholic, not Dutch Reformed, but I'm not sure how much of a difference that would make living over there. But the schools...that's where I'm at a loss.
I am perhaps being too nostalgic on this because I hope to give my own family some of what I had growing up in SH--easy lake access and the activities and lifestyle that go along with that. That's why I'm not inclined to move to GR, though that probably makes the most sense on paper.
The job market does concern me. I do something specific and I'm at a senior level so there aren't dozens or even a handful of jobs in SW MI that would fit the bill. I'm 46 and I feel somewhat confident that I have a long career ahead of me. I watched my dad go through a layoff in SW MI in his mid-50s and it took him a year to find something that apparently paid about 2/3 of what he was making previously.
Right, we could make friends along the way and I'm not too concerned about that for the kids or myself, but more for my wife. Also right, it's not like my parents would be dropping in unannounced or that we'd be visiting multiple times per week.
We're going to talk about it this weekend and make a final decision. My head says "go" but my heart says "stay".
Grand Haven is a great school district, but also extremely white. There are hit and miss school districts scattered around those areas. Downtown Grand Rapids has a bit more of a walkable city vibe, but you should Google your possible commute from any specific area. Holland and Grand Haven tend to be sleepy in the winter.
Also, you didn't mention Spring Lake, but it's school has ranked in the top 2% in the nation. Not very walkable at all, but there is a bike trail that winds around various areas, and they do have Spring Lake Fitness & Aquatic Center - Spring Lake, MI which my kids love to go to.
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