[vanguard103]

Hey everyone. I've lived in California all my life but am considering that perhaps I should make a future for myself elsewhere with the high cost of living among some other things driving many people out. I wanted to get an idea of other places, and considered New York. For some context I'm a 20M, black with a desired career to be a state game warden or park ranger. I'm agnostic, sort of a left leaning centrist if anything but I don't feel strongly about politics really. All that said, what should I know about this state? Pros or cons?

[Coldjensens]

1. It is dark for much of the year (cloudy and short days all winter).
2. It is one of the most beautiful states, perhaps the most beautiful.
3. SE Michigan is very industrialized and much of it is developed. There are a few rural areas though.
4. Everyone wants to be a forest ranger. The jobs are hard to come by and do not pay super well. You need a college degree for most jobs. However the State and federal rangers I have met (many of them because we camp a lot) love their jobs.
5. Most of the start parks and federal parks/forests are in the Northern parts of the state - mostly really empty places.
6. In many parts of Michigan you will be valued based on how hard you work. Work ethic is a huge thing here. How you dress, the brand your wear, what you drive, income etc are only the big deal in a few areas.
7. Much of Michigan tends to be a bit provincial. Many people hove lived in the same community all their lives. they already have lots of good friends and are not looking for more. People tend to be suspicious of outsiders. It can be hard to break in to social circles. Takes a long time. When we moved here from California, people assumed there was something weird about us. Why would someone move to Michigan from California?
8. Michigan has lots and lots and lots of water. That means lots of forests, lots of bugs (mosquitos), lots of mud. it also means we have lots of water. If you love boating, canoeing, kayaking, fishing, ice skating, boating, fishing. then it may be ideal.

9. Northern and Western Michigan get a lot of snow. Feet at a time sometimes.
10. Winter temperatures can get as low as 0-40 windchill. If you are not approximately dressed, you can die.
11. The first day of deer hunting season is virtually a state holiday. Nothing gets done. too many people are gone. I once read that Michigan fields a larger and better armed army during deer season than the United States sent to viet nam.
12. Shooting events are as popular as golf.
13. The state is very purple. Detroit and Ann arbor are hard blue more rural areas red. Suburbs are a mix.
14. We have horrible roads and bridges other infrastructure is crumbling as well. For 40 years our state government has been afraid to do anything about it because it would require so much increase in taxes. Instead they spend the tax money on other things.
15. for our population we have an amazing number of really good and a few great Universities. University of Michigan is into he national top ten in many fields.
16. Michiganders love to complain about Michigan, but we do not like outsiders to say bad things about it. If you are from Ohio, you are not allowed to say anything about anything.
17. Sports are a big deal here. even though our teams mostly lose during the past decade, it is still huge.
18. The South West part of the state is infested with Chicago.
19. Fall and to a lesser extent spring are incomparable. It is so pretty you will gasp. Summers are generally mild but can be buggy and humid. In the summer, to make up for no sun in winter, the daylight lasts from early morning through late night. Winter is neat, but too long and too dark.
20. Detroit is a lot nicer than you think.
21. Most people vacation mostly "up north" It gets crazy busy during the nice seasons. In the winter you get a lot of snowmobilers and some hunters in the Northern forests and public lands.
22. Most of us are fat. At least more than in some other places (like many areas California). Exercise can be limited in winter and you needs same fat to stay warm. We take the beetles song "I am the Walrus" very seriously.
23. We have generally bad government. However compared to most of California we have awesome government. Ohio usually puts us to shame, but we refuse to recognize that.
24. We tend to focus on Ohio and pretend Indiana does not exist. No dislike for Indiana, it just seems to be ignored. Minnesota and Wisconsin also touches Michigan, but just a tiny bit way way up north. Illinois (aka the republic of Chicago) also Borders Michigan, but there is a Giant lake between us so it does not count.
25. For big city life, we visit Chicago 9even though Detroit offers pretty much the same thing on a smaller and less crowded scale), but we do not want them coming here. At least not so many of them. We like to blame them for litter on the western beaches and the high price of reasl estate in th SW.

[DTWflyer]

That is probably one of the best summaries I've seen put together.

A few things to elaborate on:

1) Weather:
Like said, we have a long, dreary, dark, wet period that consumes late-fall, winter, and early spring.
Basically Late Oct - Late April/early May is like that. We have gloomy weather for days and weeks on end during this time, thanks in part to the influence of the Great Lakes. You have to embrace winter otherwise you will go crazy. The snowfalls and bright sunny days after a fresh snow can be beautiful. Find activities and hobbies you enjoy, invest in good winter gear (coat, hat/gloves, boots, snowpants, base layers) and go outside and enjoy.

2) Car Culture
The automotive industry looms large over Southeast Michigan as we are the automotive industry capital of the world. The Detroit 3 have their global headquarters, and all the other global auto OEM and suppliers have a presence in the region. We have the largest concentration of manufacturing-focused skilled labor, engineers, purchasing/supply chain talent in the country in the region. This leads to higher than average incomes, good quality of life, and also spills over to other industries in terms of wages/benefits, and impacts cost of living in the region.

Everyone knows someone directly or indirectly who works in automotive or an industry/company affiliated with the industry.
Everyone loves to drive new cars, you see more new product from the Detroit 3 than anywhere else in the country.
There is also a large gear-head culture of classic car / hot-rod / jeeper-offroad hobbiests.

[scorpio516]

Michigan DNR would run the "game warden" and park ranger side of things in Michigan - I'm guessing the closest would be Conservation Officer
https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,...764---,00.html

There are also 5 national parks and a tonne of national forests in Michigan (almost 2M acres in the UP and almost 1M in the northern LP)


I thought there were only 3 NP, I didn't know River Raisin battlefield or Keweenaw NHP existed!

[FrozenI69]

Winter sucks.
The Major cities are liberal, and rural areas are conservative. Suburbs are a mix.
Swimming, hiking, and Boating is quite popular
If you like beer tasting, there are a lot of nice brew pubs.
The UP has truly amazing clear water.
Automotive and healthcare are big employers.

Most importantly, The work culture is more conservative than out west. People are not as willing to change the way they do things at work, unless you provide a significant compelling reason to do so. For example, when I used to recommend simulation as a substitute to vehicle testing to save on resources, the management laughed at me. It took COVID for them to actually implement vehicle simulation framework, because they truly were lacking resources.

[roodd279]

MI is bigger than you think. The north-to-south distance - and the influence of the great lakes - actually creates "micro climates" around the state. A "one-size-fits-all" climate and "winter" description is not possible. Winters are more mild in the far south-central, and practically Polar in the far west upper peninsula.



But if you've never lived or spend time here in the mid-west, you'll have to accept that snow and cold are part of the deal...it's not "good" or "bad" - like heat in the desert - it just "is."

[mgkeith]

Originally Posted by FrozenI69

Winter sucks.
The Major cities are liberal, and rural areas are conservative. Suburbs are a mix.
Swimming, hiking, and Boating is quite popular
If you like beer tasting, there are a lot of nice brew pubs.
The UP has truly amazing clear water.
Automotive and healthcare are big employers.

Most importantly, The work culture is more conservative than out west. People are not as willing to change the way they do things at work, unless you provide a significant compelling reason to do so. For example, when I used to recommend simulation as a substitute to vehicle testing to save on resources, the management laughed at me. It took COVID for them to actually implement vehicle simulation framework, because they truly were lacking resources.

My husband used to do vehicle simulation at his company. He retired two years ago. To quote, he hopes they have the solid data for the model.

[FrozenI69]

Originally Posted by mgkeith

My husband used to do vehicle simulation at his company. He retired two years ago. To quote, he hopes they have the solid data for the model.

I’m mostly talking about subsystem level software testing, not a full vehicle test. You don’t need to use a car for testing one subsystem...that’s not efficient resource management, especially when there are others waiting to do full vehicle test because of the nature of changes made.
It’s hard to model a complete car, I agree. But it should be possible to model subsystems, and running those through simulation can save lot of V&V time. Over time, as the subsystem modeling improves, you could integrate those simulated subsystems to do simulated vehicle testing.
It’s not possible to have an absolutely perfect model for all cases, but if it can do 90% of the subsystem tests, that frees up resources in the long run and you do save development costs & time.
If you want to talk more about this, I can DM you. This used to be part of my day to day activity before I changed roles.

[Sparrow_temp]

The Fall and Spring are not what they are in other parts of the country. Fall is pre-Winter and Spring is post-Winter. In a lot of the country, Fall and Spring are just as long as Summer and Winter and can be some of the best seasons of the year. That's not how it's like in MI. In Fall, the weather turns cool and it begins to get dark and it rains a lot. The leaves will change colors and be beautiful for two weeks (normally October) and then they're gone and everything looks dead until the snow covers everything up and it's Winter. Winter seems to stretch well into Spring with lots of rain and clouds and then the temperatures go from where it can snow to 70's and it's summer time with the leaves back on the trees again.

Seasonal affective disorder (SAD) is real in MI. When you think of Seattle, WA - you think cloudy skies with respect to weather. Compare Seattle, WA and Traverse City, MI. Traverse City has 163 sunny days and Seattle has 152. Grand Rapids has 158 sunny days. That small amount of difference doesn't make up for the increased number of days with snow or the decreased comfort index.

Biting insects -- Mosquitoes, Black Flies, Deer Flies, and now ticks are all plentiful in MI during the summer. All of the standing water in MI allows them to thrive. They can easily ruin the one good season of the year. It's one reason to look forward to Fall -- the first frost kills all of them and you get a short reprieve. The state bird should have been the mosquito.

Beaches -- Michigan has some of the best in the country. Way better than I've seen in California. The problem is that they're only viable in the Summer.

Wages -- they're lower in MI. Get outside of the major cities and they go down even further.

[NoMansLands]

https://www.parkrangeredu.org/michigan/
https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,...764---,00.html
https://www.park-ranger.org/michigan-park-ranger/
https://www.michigan.gov/dnr/0,4570,...097---,00.html