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Old 04-24-2020, 02:34 PM
 
Location: Sparta, TN
865 posts, read 1,711,736 times
Reputation: 1012

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Oh, graphs - they make all of the difference - they're much better than those computer models that had no bearing on reality. The antibody tests are showing that lockdowns had little impact on the spread of the virus. There are states and countries without lockdowns doing better than MI. This is a highly contagious virus. It's not like SARS and MERS which could be contained. The lockdown in MI took everybody that was contagious and put them in tight quarters with their families which then got infected. You then have a member of your household go get groceries which then spread it to others. If somebody was able to go to work then that became a vector. You think it's being contained because most people have no symptoms or such mild symptoms that it's no big deal. This only severely affects a very small percentage of the population.

At best, the lockdown may have delayed somebody getting the virus. That was it's original purpose -- delay everybody from getting the virus at once so the hospitals can cope. Well, the hospitals had no issues except those caused by the lockdown. The Swedish people seem to have it right. Protect the vulnerable in their population. Let the rest go about their daily business and those that get it do so with little consequence and then your population develops a herd immunity and your effectively done with the virus. No civil rights were taken away in the process, the economy is not ruined, and you have medical outcomes better than places using the China model.

With respect to Trump, no -- he didn't suggest that people do this. This is the media taking him out of context or just outright lying again. He was asking questions as to whether there's any way of using any of the methodologies of killing the virus that were announced yesterday (specifically the UV light) in patients that were infected. On the UV light thing, I'm not sure why that isn't already a thing in all public buildings. Install the equivalent of a couple of UV fluorescent bulbs pointing up and some fans to bring the airflow up and you've got a much healthier environment since the UV light would kill any of the virus and bacteria when it reached the lamps. Or you know it might also be common sense to let people enjoy that natural UV light and heat in the summer that you get from being outdoors that seems to kill the Wuhan virus rather than keeping people on lockdown in their own homes.


Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMansLands View Post
The virus is still spreading as long as people with it come in contact with other people, this is common sense stuff. The virus would have been MUCH higher without the lockdown, again, common sense. The hospitals would have been overrun, the numbers ten to 100 times higher, same with the deaths. Again, I posted the graphs, all you needed to do was read them and compare "do nothing" with "mitigation". It's right there in the link I posted along with so many other similar graphs everywhere across the internet for anyone to read and learn to understand. You can lead a horse to water though, you can't make it drink.

You're not one of those people considering inhaling disinfectants or bleaches are you? I know your Great Leader brought it up today as something to do. Please don't follow this suggestion, I'm starting to get worried for your health since you believe Trump "been right on just about everything".
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Old 04-24-2020, 03:09 PM
 
Location: On the water.
21,589 posts, read 16,108,710 times
Reputation: 19658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp View Post
Oh, graphs - they make all of the difference - they're much better than those computer models that had no bearing on reality. The antibody tests are showing that lockdowns had little impact on the spread of the virus. There are states and countries without lockdowns doing better than MI. This is a highly contagious virus. It's not like SARS and MERS which could be contained. The lockdown in MI took everybody that was contagious and put them in tight quarters with their families which then got infected. You then have a member of your household go get groceries which then spread it to others. If somebody was able to go to work then that became a vector. You think it's being contained because most people have no symptoms or such mild symptoms that it's no big deal. This only severely affects a very small percentage of the population.

At best, the lockdown may have delayed somebody getting the virus. That was it's original purpose -- delay everybody from getting the virus at once so the hospitals can cope. Well, the hospitals had no issues except those caused by the lockdown. The Swedish people seem to have it right. Protect the vulnerable in their population. Let the rest go about their daily business and those that get it do so with little consequence and then your population develops a herd immunity and your effectively done with the virus. No civil rights were taken away in the process, the economy is not ruined, and you have medical outcomes better than places using the China model.

With respect to Trump, no -- he didn't suggest that people do this. This is the media taking him out of context or just outright lying again. He was asking questions as to whether there's any way of using any of the methodologies of killing the virus that were announced yesterday (specifically the UV light) in patients that were infected. On the UV light thing, I'm not sure why that isn't already a thing in all public buildings. Install the equivalent of a couple of UV fluorescent bulbs pointing up and some fans to bring the airflow up and you've got a much healthier environment since the UV light would kill any of the virus and bacteria when it reached the lamps. Or you know it might also be common sense to let people enjoy that natural UV light and heat in the summer that you get from being outdoors that seems to kill the Wuhan virus rather than keeping people on lockdown in their own homes.
Um no. He wasn’t taken “out of context” one little bit. I watched the whole presser and heard what he said and what preceded and followed. He’s a complete dolt and idiot.

And the rest of your bloviation is just utter nonsense. Word salad.
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Old 04-24-2020, 04:35 PM
 
2,690 posts, read 1,588,516 times
Reputation: 9906
NPR: The Food and Drug Administration strongly warned Friday against using hydroxychloroquine or a related compound, chloroquine, for treating or preventing COVID-19 without strict medical supervision in a hospital or as part of a clinical trial. The agency said its officials have not approved the anti-malaria drugs for that purpose — and that without close monitoring for side effects, they may lead to life-threatening complications.

"We understand that health care professionals are looking for every possible treatment option for their patients and we want to ensure we're providing them with the appropriate information needed for them to make the best medical decisions," FDA Commissioner Stephen M. Hahn said.

"While clinical trials are ongoing to determine the safety and effectiveness of these drugs for COVID-19, there are known side effects of these medications that should be considered," he added. "We encourage health care professionals making individual patient decisions closely screen and monitor those patients to help mitigate these risks."

The FDA said it has received reports in its adverse event reporting system and from poison control centers, detailing "serious heart-related adverse events and death in patients with COVID-19 receiving hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine." These include a rapid heartbeat known as ventricular tachycardia, among other forms of heart rhythm disturbances. The reported side effects occurred when the medications were used alone and combined with the antibiotic azithromycin.

The FDA's announcement comes just several days after a panel convened by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases issued a similar warning, specifically about using a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin.
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Old 04-24-2020, 04:38 PM
 
2,690 posts, read 1,588,516 times
Reputation: 9906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
Um no. He wasn’t taken “out of context” one little bit. I watched the whole presser and heard what he said and what preceded and followed. He’s a complete dolt and idiot.
Now he's trying to take it back by claiming sarcasm, but anybody watching him suggest it, and that he asked Birx to look into it, could tell he was completely serious. He was a complete idiot about it and is trying to cover his tracks.

What he hasn't taken back is his disapproval of Georgia governor relaxing their laws and allowing tattoo parlors, hair cutting salons, etc., to reopen. Now how is somebody going to twist this one into a democrat party conspiracy? No can do!
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Old 04-24-2020, 04:42 PM
 
2,690 posts, read 1,588,516 times
Reputation: 9906
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tulemutt View Post
You now can do more things (see bolded examples above). Whitmer’s new guidelines open nurseries and motorboating and golf and more:

https://nbc25news.com/news/state/whi...les-04-24-2020
Yes! A few on my wish list were granted today. I was a good girl throughout the lockdown
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Old 04-24-2020, 04:45 PM
 
2,690 posts, read 1,588,516 times
Reputation: 9906
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdhpa View Post
I don't think it's a matter of wanting normal back. 26 million people have filed for unemployment, and there are a lot more on the way. We're already at about 25% unemployment, it will likely go over 30%. People aren't antsy because they're stuck in their homes - they're terrified because they have no job, no where to get a job, no idea how long the lock downs are going to last, and no idea if they'll be able to get a job when the lock downs end. They have no idea what's going to happen to them, if they're going to lose everything they've worked their entire lives for. This isn't an inconvenience, and it isn't just being antsy. Eventually people will become desperate, I hope it doesn't get to that point, but eventually they will. The ability to get a job is the only thing that will fix this.

There are 10's of millions of people affected by this. If 99.9% follow your lead, there will be 10's of thousands that don't. That's a lot of people who can cause a lot of trouble. What are the odds 100% of people follow your lead?
True. I do feel for anyone who lives week to week.

As for those that don't follow "my lead" which really is just following the governor's rules...there have always been those who break the laws and there always will be, coronavirus or no coronavirus.
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Old 04-28-2020, 08:00 PM
 
Location: Sparta, TN
865 posts, read 1,711,736 times
Reputation: 1012
Completely politically motivated and a disgrace. It's a drug that's been used for decades -- even in pregnant women -- and has one of the best safety records of all prescription drugs. It's also a drug that's used for long durations by those that take it. The doctors who actually treat COVID-19 are using this drug cocktail (hydroxychloroquine & azithromycin) and reporting no such issues. It's never required strict medical supervision or hospitalization in its history. Other countries are laughing at this and wondering what heck is wrong with this country. This is like requiring a prescription on aspirin because of Reye's syndrome or requiring a prescription for bottled water because of the number of deaths due to drowning.

This crap will eventually be completely discredited but unfortunately it will hurt/kill thousands along the way. Our government doesn't care though. We've got leaders with spines made of jello, are completely risk averse, but will do whatever it takes to stay in power and control more of your day-to-day activities.

And then we got the new media that cares nothing about truth (just politics) and also the tech giants like Google who are scrubbing all forms of dissent for crap like this. It's a world only the likes of Governor Whitmer could love...

Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMansLands View Post
NPR: The Food and Drug Administration strongly warned Friday against using hydroxychloroquine or a related compound, chloroquine, for treating or preventing COVID-19 without strict medical supervision in a hospital or as part of a clinical trial. The agency said its officials have not approved the anti-malaria drugs for that purpose — and that without close monitoring for side effects, they may lead to life-threatening complications.

"We understand that health care professionals are looking for every possible treatment option for their patients and we want to ensure we're providing them with the appropriate information needed for them to make the best medical decisions," FDA Commissioner Stephen M. Hahn said.

"While clinical trials are ongoing to determine the safety and effectiveness of these drugs for COVID-19, there are known side effects of these medications that should be considered," he added. "We encourage health care professionals making individual patient decisions closely screen and monitor those patients to help mitigate these risks."

The FDA said it has received reports in its adverse event reporting system and from poison control centers, detailing "serious heart-related adverse events and death in patients with COVID-19 receiving hydroxychloroquine and chloroquine." These include a rapid heartbeat known as ventricular tachycardia, among other forms of heart rhythm disturbances. The reported side effects occurred when the medications were used alone and combined with the antibiotic azithromycin.

The FDA's announcement comes just several days after a panel convened by the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases issued a similar warning, specifically about using a combination of hydroxychloroquine and azithromycin.
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Old 04-28-2020, 09:56 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,495 posts, read 16,576,998 times
Reputation: 29658
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sparrow_temp View Post
The experts completely debunked that story. Come on, look at the source. The URL was chopped but I know what it was about. This was a small survey (can't call it a study) where they showed hydroxychloroquine being given at the time of intubation (way too late) compared with their "control group" that was given another antibiotic also meant to help with the virus. This was in essence journalistic malpractice combined with extremely bad science. The media will publish anything if it undermines Trump in some way though.

Hydroxychloroquine has one of the longest and best safety records of any prescription drug on the market and you'll see articles that in effect call it poison. It's used by millions of people for long duration as an antimalarial drug. There are two main problems with it -- it's cheap (no profit) and Trump endorsed it (politically untenable). Unfortunately, it's also been found to be very effective which is why every hospital dealing with large numbers of Wuhan virus victims is using it.
Even though I'm a liberal Democrat I agree with you.
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Old 04-28-2020, 09:58 PM
Status: "A solution in search of a problem" (set 18 days ago)
 
Location: New York Area
34,495 posts, read 16,576,998 times
Reputation: 29658
Quote:
Originally Posted by NoMansLands View Post
The virus is still spreading as long as people with it come in contact with other people, this is common sense stuff. The virus would have been MUCH higher without the lockdown, again, common sense. The hospitals would have been overrun, the numbers ten to 100 times higher, same with the deaths. Again, I posted the graphs, all you needed to do was read them and compare "do nothing" with "mitigation". It's right there in the link I posted along with so many other similar graphs everywhere across the internet for anyone to read and learn to understand. You can lead a horse to water though, you can't make it drink.

You're not one of those people considering inhaling disinfectants or bleaches are you? I know your Great Leader brought it up today as something to do. Please don't follow this suggestion, I'm starting to get worried for your health since you believe Trump "been right on just about everything".
As it is, lots of people were infected asymptomatically.
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Old 04-29-2020, 01:32 AM
 
2,690 posts, read 1,588,516 times
Reputation: 9906
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa View Post
As it is, lots of people were infected asymptomatically.
We'll never know those numbers unless we test every single person with an accurate antibody test.
Likewise, we'll never know the true death count of covid-19 as for sure some have other reasons on their death certs.
What we do know is that we have now surpassed the US death toll from the war in vietnam, which lasted 20 years.
This virus is not a joke, and those who treat it as such are going to be more susceptible, perhaps even losing their very life because of arrogance.

As for the FDA, I trust them over politically motivated people.
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