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Old 07-29-2021, 08:47 PM
 
2,668 posts, read 2,593,916 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParkerKnepp View Post
Public transportation: I think we should be progressive and put in a high speed train system in Michigan. California started this, but was stopped by Trump.
Didn't notice this earlier.

The HSR was originally billed as a train that would take you from LA to San Francisco in 2.5 hours, for less than a plane ticket (<$100), and would cost ~$30B to completely build. The current estimate is ~$80B to go between Bakersfield and Merced, I haven't seen an estimate for time but with all the extra stops added it won't be anywhere near 2.5 hours, and it will be heavily subsidized to keep the price competitive with flying. While the current cost estimate is $80B, there will be overruns, you can count on it being >$100B for just the short, easy segment.

For reference, after the Loma Prieta earthquake made one half of one span of the Bay Bridge collapse, it took 20 years and $6B to replace it. That's one half of one span of a short bridge.

The governor tried to kill HSR because it's so far off the rails (no pun intended) but got so much blowback he quickly backpedaled.

'Newsom said on Tuesday, "The current project, as planned, would cost too much and respectfully take too long." '

The stretch between Merced and Bakersfield is by far the easiest and cheapest part of the line. It's a straight shot through flat farmland that runs parallel to an existing road. Getting to LA requires boring through miles of mountains and displacing 10's of miles of ~$1Million homes every 75 feet. Getting to San Francisco requires displacing 40 miles of homes every 100 feet that are >$2Million each. Needless to say, there's fierce opposition from residents and city governments the entire way that don't want to lose their homes, or have a 200 mph train barreling through their neighborhood. If the train ever does run all the way to LA or San Francisco you're going to be a very old man at best when it opens.
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Old 07-30-2021, 08:39 AM
 
95 posts, read 118,717 times
Reputation: 257
Quote:
Originally Posted by michigan91 View Post
My personal dream scenario is that the state moves the capitol to St. Ignace or Mackinaw City.
This is an interesting idea. The Brasilia of Michigan. A Constantinople of the New World.

Historically, St. Ignace was a locus of French and Indian trade, as the the Straits have the mildest, least snowy climate for the region, Southeast Michigan was contested with the Iroquois, and the settlement was the geographical center of fur trapping territory. The natives of the Straits were fully engaged in birch bark canoe manufacturing of the trappers, and the the settlement was used as a refuge and entrepot for Europeans traveling to and from Manitoba and the Great Plains.

There's a lot of underreported history at the Straits. Would make a neater capital than Lansing. Taking water taxis and ferries around would be fun.
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Old 07-30-2021, 09:18 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,498,895 times
Reputation: 4949
Looked like Michigan automotive might make a come-back with Electric and GM in early 201x . . . with Chevy starting into the Volt, etc.

But then Chevy then crashed that as only Chevy can.

If you look at this as a Cash Flow thing -- Michigan sort of needs a "job." Something to do earn money. Would probably be smart to be self-sufficient on Energy -- so Michigan does not have to send the money somewhere else to survive. It might look like off-shore Big Wind could be such a thing (just observation, not really advocating). Sample map on that >>> https://openei.org/w/images/2/25/NRE...m-offshore.pdf

So leading US and world in Future Automotive could be a thing -- but not really happening due to . . . (what some dinosaur brains running things, or what?).

Food is another area . . . some of the high income berries and specialties could be larger performers -- like the California Central Valley in this regard . . . but with actual water.

And there is tourism.

So there are some areas to excel in . . .

1. Future Auto -- probably largely Electric.
2. Energy (to keep your cash and export)
3. Food
4. Tourism.

Another thing that could have some future and benefit might be cut-and-bury Highways. Put the major roads underground. Nature / Parks / local use above. Say for example -- I-94 from Detroit to Chicago. Maintenance drops massively, and snow / bad weather is no longer a problem. Just have move away from Oil burning Trucks and Cars (bad air underground) and towards Electric Roadways. Somehow Indiana is getting one of the first test beds for that. Michigan probably woulda-shoulda got in the fight for that. Not too late, by far.

sample >>>
https://www.greencarreports.com/news...ted-in-indiana
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Old 07-30-2021, 09:13 PM
 
1,317 posts, read 1,919,155 times
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Southeast Michigan still is the global hub of automotive product design, engineering, purchasing, supply chain, and technical capability at both the OEM, Tiered supplier base, and indirect suppliers.
That is our bread and butter that directly supports a lot of the upper middle class incomes in the region and indirectly supports all of the goods/services/needs they procure.

Despite all this talk about diversification, the number one priority for Michigan is to retain that title. Its easy to keep what you have than try to get something new. Michigan needs to be at the forefront of the evolving global automotive industry and the emerging technology in the EV and autonomous space.

While the pure number of automotive manufacturing jobs has decreased over the years as the manufacturing footprint has evolved, automation/technology has replaced some jobs, and the competitive landscape of foreign OEMs have put a lot of their capacity in the Southeastern part of the US, and NAFTA its the higher skilled jobs that fuel the region's economy.
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Old 07-31-2021, 12:35 PM
 
95 posts, read 118,717 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTWflyer View Post
Despite all this talk about diversification, the number one priority for Michigan is to retain that title.

This is the big one, as it's Michigan's fundamental advantage in the knowledge-based economy and value-added product. Germany's, South Korea's, and Japan's economies are are floated on automobile production and their governments bend over backwards for them, but in the US the buzz for the past few decades is SV and tech. The Big Three have a PR problem.


The rural parts of Michigan have also competitive advantages in transportation cost of natural resources compared to other states like Kentucky or Alabama. There are limestone and iron ore ports all over Michigan which support the economies of the neighboring rural towns, but your average SE Michigan resident just assumes the rural communities live and die off of their tourist dollar. It's kinda patronizing.
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Old 08-01-2021, 09:32 AM
 
Location: 404
3,006 posts, read 1,474,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DTWflyer View Post
Southeast Michigan still is the global hub of automotive product design, engineering, purchasing, supply chain, and technical capability at both the OEM, Tiered supplier base, and indirect suppliers.
That is our bread and butter that directly supports a lot of the upper middle class incomes in the region and indirectly supports all of the goods/services/needs they procure.

Despite all this talk about diversification, the number one priority for Michigan is to retain that title. Its easy to keep what you have than try to get something new. Michigan needs to be at the forefront of the evolving global automotive industry and the emerging technology in the EV and autonomous space.

While the pure number of automotive manufacturing jobs has decreased over the years as the manufacturing footprint has evolved, automation/technology has replaced some jobs, and the competitive landscape of foreign OEMs have put a lot of their capacity in the Southeastern part of the US, and NAFTA its the higher skilled jobs that fuel the region's economy.
Or we could accept inevitability. Automobile production will decrease over the next few decades to zero, along with most upper middle class incomes. We can still have manufacturing, but with mostly manual labor. The abundant energy used in automation will be gone. Michigan could make the nation's finest streetcars and other useful products in an age of rising energy prices.
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:48 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,498,895 times
Reputation: 4949
Quote:
Originally Posted by michikawa View Post
The Big Three have a PR problem.

They seem to have a Stupid Problem. From the top. Put Stupid folks in charge, and you are going to get Stupid Results. Look at how long they have fought going Electric. But the Electric folks (Tesla, and even the Mustang and F150) are sold out years in advance.
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:51 AM
 
Location: Phoenix, AZ
6,401 posts, read 8,921,872 times
Reputation: 8491
Quote:
Originally Posted by Philip T View Post
They seem to have a Stupid Problem. From the top. Put Stupid folks in charge, and you are going to get Stupid Results. Look at how long they have fought going Electric. But the Electric folks (Tesla, and even the Mustang and F150) are sold out years in advance.
Electric vehicles have been on the market for years. Interest in them is still niche.
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:52 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,498,895 times
Reputation: 4949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nattering Heights View Post
Or we could accept inevitability. Automobile production will decrease over the next few decades to zero, along with most upper middle class incomes. We can still have manufacturing, but with mostly manual labor. The abundant energy used in automation will be gone. Michigan could make the nation's finest streetcars and other useful products in an age of rising energy prices.
That does not seem to be the case in the non-Amish world.

In the real world, things are severely shifting renewable electricity and automation.

Electricity has become so surplus that some areas are giving it away for Free in non-Peak Time of Use.

Oil has been a loser for US since about 1972. Some folks are just slow to accept that.
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Old 08-01-2021, 10:54 AM
 
5,760 posts, read 11,498,895 times
Reputation: 4949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bondurant View Post
Electric vehicles have been on the market for years. Interest in them is still niche.
Then why are they sold out years in advance?

I understand that Chevy has been too stupid to figure things out -- but that points more to Chevy being stupid -- not that EVs from competent manufacturers are not sold out years in advance.
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