[Sparrow_temp]

I believe that's because we're in a 1-state depression -- it kind of seems like 1922. You're right that those jobs would probably go to some other state but that's better than them leaving the country.

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[malamute]

Moderator cut: quote removed. Orphaned - the post you were quoting was removed.

Well -- in fact I'm not in Michigan, but I did hear of some shop's business being up, but that might be temporary. Since the thread is about MI turning around, I was just giving what I thought could but obviously it won't turn around while you have the governor you have.

It could turn around but the unionist mentality would have to change, you'd have to have a less tax and spend governor. I know of people who were hanging on by the fingernails and now are facing layoffs or just got laid off thanks to a strike by GM workers who really don't care what happens to good working people. The greed is too great still for any turnaround right now, but who knows down the road what could happen.

I don't think it will turn around where Michigan gets it's former status back but it could compete with states like Indiana.

[UpperPeninsulaRon]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

Look at Wal Mart. You can buy all kinds of things made everywhere but here, cheap and people flock to their stores. America is geting what America asked for. Cheap goods made anywhere but here.

People get incensed when the name Wal Mart comes up. There are countless postings about how we need to support our local stores with American made goods.

Last weekend I was in a "General Store" about fifty miles from a "city" (really a town) which you would think would be the anti big box peoples dream. Hardware, canned goods, some clothing, etc. A real General Store.

Guess what was in the hardware section? Endless packages of stuff with directions printed in three languages packaged in England. In the food section was not goods grown by local farmers. No, it was packaged stuff by huge companies made everywhere. The clothing - overseas labels.

The point is that it is not only Wal Mart. This is an overall trend regardless of store size. So instead of pining for the good old days, let's figure out how to profit as a state from the rules of the game as it is being played today. Maybe we have to start thinking differently about the future and not waiting for big brother to bring us back to the 1950's.

[tcbh]

We do not make anything her. we are a 70% consumer nation. We started on cocaine and now we are on a street corner hitting crack.

[gr8pyrz]

Part of the problem for MI right now is the lack of new industry. Instead of constantly trying to figure out how the auto companies can change to save the day, MI needs to re-invent itself. We need a new outlook and a new identity.

Our "5yr plan" to move out of state was up in Jan and our house has been on the market since. At this point we just cannot compete and we're looking to have to stay here. But to what price? We can't get out of our house, DH isn't working steady, I lost my job back in Dec. and I will now be competing with tens of thousands that are just like me. Hell I couldn't even get an orientation appointment with Michigan Works until Aug 26th because there are so many out of work.

Currently in our city (Downriver) there are 3 houses on the market for under 35k, 2 for 40k and another 8 under 70k. There is no one buying homes except investors and lets be honest, are they going to fill them with renters? At these numbers? No way. No work = No $ for renting.

The outlook just isn't good when you are literally in the thick of it watching it all happen. With GM just announcing more cuts, we know there will be yet more foreclosures. There is also another round of interest only ARM's coming due that will again increase the foreclosures. There just isn't enough jobs anymore.....the auto industries cannot do it for us, we need new businesses.

I don't have an answer for how that will happen, but without real wages, that will keep people in their homes we are in deep **** here.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by tcbh

We do not make anything her. we are a 70% consumer nation. We started on cocaine and now we are on a street corner hitting crack.

That's because we quit buying things made here years ago. Now all you can buy is foriegn made goods.

WalMart is what it is today because people wanted cheap foriegn goods now all we can find are cheap foriegn goods no matter where we look. We got what we wanted and we're out of work because of it.

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by gr8pyrz

Part of the problem for MI right now is the lack of new industry. Instead of constantly trying to figure out how the auto companies can change to save the day, MI needs to re-invent itself. We need a new outlook and a new identity.

Our "5yr plan" to move out of state was up in Jan and our house has been on the market since. At this point we just cannot compete and we're looking to have to stay here. But to what price? We can't get out of our house, DH isn't working steady, I lost my job back in Dec. and I will now be competing with tens of thousands that are just like me. Hell I couldn't even get an orientation appointment with Michigan Works until Aug 26th because there are so many out of work.

Currently in our city (Downriver) there are 3 houses on the market for under 35k, 2 for 40k and another 8 under 70k. There is no one buying homes except investors and lets be honest, are they going to fill them with renters? At these numbers? No way. No work = No $ for renting.

The outlook just isn't good when you are literally in the thick of it watching it all happen. With GM just announcing more cuts, we know there will be yet more foreclosures. There is also another round of interest only ARM's coming due that will again increase the foreclosures. There just isn't enough jobs anymore.....the auto industries cannot do it for us, we need new businesses.

I don't have an answer for how that will happen, but without real wages, that will keep people in their homes we are in deep **** here.

New industry will not come here because of the union. They can't compete on union scale. No one is going to buy their higher priced products so they can pay more. They're going to go where they can pay less.

I'd love to get out of Michigan but I'm 5 years away from that because of my husband's job. He'll be retiring in 5-7 years. Then we'll leave. I'm sure I can do better in other states than here and I don't see Michigan ever turning around. We relied too heavily on automotive but the union destroyed that. Now what's left? Who wants to come here and pay union scale for half the work someone else will do in a day?

[Michigansnowflake]

WE didnt get what WE wanted, I NEVER shop at WALMART....some of us still have good judgement

[Ivorytickler]

Originally Posted by UpperPeninsulaRon

People get incensed when the name Wal Mart comes up. There are countless postings about how we need to support our local stores with American made goods.

Last weekend I was in a "General Store" about fifty miles from a "city" (really a town) which you would think would be the anti big box peoples dream. Hardware, canned goods, some clothing, etc. A real General Store.

Guess what was in the hardware section? Endless packages of stuff with directions printed in three languages packaged in England. In the food section was not goods grown by local farmers. No, it was packaged stuff by huge companies made everywhere. The clothing - overseas labels.

The point is that it is not only Wal Mart. This is an overall trend regardless of store size. So instead of pining for the good old days, let's figure out how to profit as a state from the rules of the game as it is being played today. Maybe we have to start thinking differently about the future and not waiting for big brother to bring us back to the 1950's.

That's because we stopped buying American years ago so American companies either went under or left the country. We did this to ourselves. All in the name of saving a penny. Now pennies are all we have to spend. American consumers are not very smart. They blame everyone but themselves when all they need to do is look in the mirror to see who is to blame.

American manufacturing is not coming back. I fear for where we'll be when my kids are my age.

[gr8pyrz]

Originally Posted by Ivorytickler

New industry will not come here because of the union. They can't compete on union scale. No one is going to buy their higher priced products so they can pay more. They're going to go where they can pay less.

I know this argument well and although I see both sides, the fact remains that without living wages (ie union wages) the whole SE area of MI would be a wasteland. Who would buy those vehicles? Who would buy to keep the businesses going?

I agree some changes need to be made, but 14$/hr doesn't cut it to keep a mortgage, pay higher gas prices and look to have some sort of economic future. So are those jobs just stepping stones? To what then? Can we utilize an overabundance of engineers, lawyers and accountants? Aren't we facing that right now as it is?

Can the economy here drop to accomodate those lower wages? Where is the point of no return where we recognize that it benefits us all if living wages are a high priority for our fellow Americans?