[topshop]

Considering all the bad news about the Big3, would it be reasonable to assume that many people are going to avoid those carmakers regardless of what happens to them with bailouts or bankruptcy or any other approach?

Might it not be best to just shut them down, allow someone to buy the assets and start new car making companies from scratch?

Brand new efficient companies which could sell cars to the entire world and begin to make Detroit the new king of car manufacturing.

[MI-IRISH]

good idea,bad concept.To get rid of a company that big needs to be phased out,the trickle down effect of just shutting them down would be astronomical,not just thousands of jobs lost,but millions from coast to coast.

[Jwo85]

I think filing for bankruptcy would help GM.It gives them protection and the ability to reorganize. I never heard one person say they would not fly Northwest airlines because they filed for bankruptcy. Perhaps GM should lighten up about bankruptcy and that might get people too consider giving them a "Loan".

Also why are their mayors of other Michigan cities going to D.C.? I think it should be the line workers from the Big 3 plants going. Tell capitol hill from the real Americans lips that they would be hurt if the loans are not given. The hill don't want to listen too some smuck in a suit.

[MI-IRISH]

The hill don't want to listen too some smuck in a suit.[/quote]
yep,hard to look in a mirror and not like the reflection

[brokerdave]

Originally Posted by MI-IRISH

good idea,bad concept.To get rid of a company that big needs to be phased out,the trickle down effect of just shutting them down would be astronomical,not just thousands of jobs lost,but millions from coast to coast.

nobody said they would shut down. they would file chapter 11, this would actually start the phase you're talking about. because they would slowly liquidate assets to get out of the red.

i think talking about it is pointless. giving them money wont solve anything. it will just stall the inevitable. they are all poorly ran and obviously the master engineering of making vehicles fail after 3 years isn't paying off huge like they thought it would. let them get taken over by honda and toyota who can actually manage a company. eliminate the UAW, because lets face it, they are also a large part of the problem. oh ya, and maybe also bring the jobs back to america?

[malamute]

Originally Posted by topshop

Considering all the bad news about the Big3, would it be reasonable to assume that many people are going to avoid those carmakers regardless of what happens to them with bailouts or bankruptcy or any other approach?

Might it not be best to just shut them down, allow someone to buy the assets and start new car making companies from scratch?

Brand new efficient companies which could sell cars to the entire world and begin to make Detroit the new king of car manufacturing.

It would be best to let them go into bankruptcy and reorganize. Selling off some product lines/plants would lead to more efficiency. For example Toyota might buy up a factory or two and better manage it.

[tym2retyr]

Ok. at the risk of really being hammered here I gotta say the big three & the unions probably did this to the people. If the big three want to reorganize and make money they will have to eliminate the unions. I used to work for an automotive company as a skilled tradesman. I had one job and one job ONLY. I since have moved to a non union workplace where the people are self reliant. NO BOSS on any shift. All decisions are made by the people, and the tradesmen are multiskilled. I'm an electrician by trade and right now with the job I have I am also a mobile equipment mechanic, welder, millwright, machinist, and machine repairman.What ever is broke down I have to take care of. Our facility is controlled by an IBM logic system and I have to know ladder logic as well as concept contol. I would have never gained these skills in a union environment. I really feel that in order to meet the needs of todays technology people have to adapt and learn. Oh and by the way I am still employed with no rumors of our facility shutting down. I know a lot of you would see this as something that is totally against what has been passed down for a lot of years in regards to typical job discriptions, but it just might be the way things are going to go in the future. Forgive me if this has stepped on anyones toes, it was not my intention.

[brokerdave]

Originally Posted by tym2retyr

Ok. at the risk of really being hammered here I gotta say the big three & the unions probably did this to the people. If the big three want to reorganize and make money they will have to eliminate the unions. I used to work for an automotive company as a skilled tradesman. I had one job and one job ONLY. I since have moved to a non union workplace where the people are self reliant. NO BOSS on any shift. All decisions are made by the people, and the tradesmen are multiskilled. I'm an electrician by trade and right now with the job I have I am also a mobile equipment mechanic, welder, millwright, machinist, and machine repairman.What ever is broke down I have to take care of. Our facility is controlled by an IBM logic system and I have to know ladder logic as well as concept contol. I would have never gained these skills in a union environment. I really feel that in order to meet the needs of todays technology people have to adapt and learn. Oh and by the way I am still employed with no rumors of our facility shutting down. I know a lot of you would see this as something that is totally against what has been passed down for a lot of years in regards to typical job discriptions, but it just might be the way things are going to go in the future. Forgive me if this has stepped on anyones toes, it was not my intention.

while i support non-unions as they have outlived there purpose. ford has been alternating the employees for years.

the problem with unions is that they don't support the right employees. if you go to jail/prison, when you get out you shouldn't be allowed to walk back out onto the line. if you are ever on the line drunk or on drugs you should be terminated immediately. if you have perfect attendance for years and then have to leave on an emergency, you shouldn't be reprimanded.

there are simply to many holes in the system these days that aren't serving the intended purpose.

[merit1sje]

Yes it may be reasonable to assume, but it would not be correct because the reality of the situation is clear. The bad news on the TV and in the papers may stop some from buying but the truth is that people are worried. People are not buying cars because either they can't afford one or those that can, won't spend the money.

Bailouts and bankruptcies would have very little effect on the confidence of the buying public. We are more consumed with the here and now. The loss of jobs, the loss of retirements, the loss of homes. Is it any wonder that we are skiddish?

The auto industry will no doubt undergo a change of large proportions. Someone, somewhere, will pick up the pieces.

When we arrive at this point, we will truly understand Globalization. The idea that it's not just about US anymore! There are many people out there in this world who desire things as much, if not more, than we do.

GM and Ford already sell cars overseas and at a pretty good profit! American workers are going to have to live with reduced wages and a more "in line" type of life. A more competative wage that reflects this global economy!

This is competition at its best. Though many here may not like it, it is the way that we will go. In other words, if we want to compete, we will have to come down to a level that is sustainable. If we don't concede, we wil be left behind....................

[GlassPipe]

Originally Posted by merit1sje

American workers are going to have to live with reduced wages and a more "in line" type of life. A more competative wage that reflects this global economy!

I dont' know if it's the wages that are really the core of the problem, but UAW salaries and benefits do contribute. The jobs bank is a complete black hole into which cash just disapears as well but I think the root of the problem is leaning more towards outrageous spending - much like government.

I work at a GM facility and I see a lot of money pissed away on such stupid things. What kind of chair are you sitting in right now? I'm sitting in a $900 herman miller aeron chair and so are about 800-1000 others in this same building. That's almost a million dollars on fricken chairs!!! The visitor center at our location? Complete waste of money, at least another million - easy. Doesn't provide any value, just a pretty facade for the dog and pony show that awaits visitors. They elminated safety equipment racks a couple months ago in order to cut costs. LOL - what a friggen joke. "Here, sit your ass in a $900 chair but don't wear those $1 glasses or we'll go broke!" Swear to god, that's how they work things. Then look at what their higher ups drive - all company cars. The guy making $120k+ yearly - does he really need to have someone else give him a car while the janitor (who makes peanuts if not just the shells of peanuts) needs to fix his 20 year old s-10 weekly just to get to work? Stupid materialistic nitwits is all they've been. Had they stuck to the basics, the things that really make them money, and avoided all the unneccesary material things that do nothing but make them feel special, they wouldn't be in this mess and I wouldn't be sitting here worrying and wondering if I'll have a job to come back to after Christmas. They need to re-think their business and quit worrying about keeping up with the Jones'. But yeah - the UAW does need to go too. Hire all those workers and dump the mob bosses like Gettlefinger. Protect employees' right's through legislation - not a union. If there is no longer a need for someone, help them find other work. Don't pay them to play poker 8 hours a day for 15 years like they do with the jobs bank.