[allbusiness]

I hope future dicsussions can separate cigars from cigarettes. I'm no fan of cigarette smoke and enjoy dining in a smoke free environment -- or at least one that is equipped to handle the smoke.

You know, I rarely see my fellow cigar smokers step outside 8 or 10 times during a typical work day, like I do cigarette smokers, to smoke some portion of a $9 cigar. That's because cigar smokers usually are not adicted. Going all day without a cigar is the usual M.O. of cigar smokers. I go a week or two without a cigar sometimes but when I do get together with friends, we enjoy "breaking out a few sticks".

Cigar smokers are members of a brotherhood (sometimes sisterhood) who enjoy acquiring, swapping, sharing, gifting and smoking somewhat expensive consumables with friends, often with a scotch or other libation. This is usually done in a private residence or in a dedicated cigar shop, cigar lounge, club or cigar bar where patrons and employees are all connoisseurs of the product -- which is legal in America and generates billions in tax dollars. Cigar shop/lounge/bar employees work there because it is a cigar establishment and, they too, enjoy the product.

Cigar smoke is almost never inhaled, and is generally found to be, at least, "somewhat pleasing" -- even to non-smokers should they accidently somehow stumble into a cigar friendly establishment. Plus most cigar smokers practice excellent oral hygeine to guard against the small risk of mouth and gum disease that could be caused by smoke.

Comparing cigar smokers with cigarette smokers is like comparing wine connoisseurs with a wino who lives under a bridge.

The cigar smokers I have met over the past ten years are, in almost every case, the most caring, giving, thoughtful, loving individuals I know. They come together in online forums, face-to-face "meet-ups" and "herfs", where lifetime friendships are made. Smoking a cigar with a friend causes one to relax, contemplate life and savor the moment. This is why cigar smokers as a group, tend to live longer, have less health issues and more real friends.

Lumping cigar smoking into a general discussion of smoking bans makes no sense to me, and any ban should include exceptions to allow for the continuation of legal businesses that are specifically in business for cigar smokers and not hurting anyone else.

OK, let the bashing begin... ;-)

[Peter B]

Originally Posted by allbusiness

I hope future dicsussions can separate cigars from cigarettes. I'm no fan of cigarette smoke and enjoy dining in a smoke free environment -- or at least one that is equipped to handle the smoke.

You know, I rarely see my fellow cigar smokers step outside 8 or 10 times during a typical work day, like I do cigarette smokers, to smoke some portion of a $9 cigar. That's because cigar smokers usually are not adicted. Going all day without a cigar is the usual M.O. of cigar smokers. I go a week or two without a cigar sometimes but when I do get together with friends, we enjoy "breaking out a few sticks".

Cigar smokers are members of a brotherhood (sometimes sisterhood) who enjoy acquiring, swapping, sharing, gifting and smoking somewhat expensive consumables with friends, often with a scotch or other libation. This is usually done in a private residence or in a dedicated cigar shop, cigar lounge, club or cigar bar where patrons and employees are all connoisseurs of the product -- which is legal in America and generates billions in tax dollars. Cigar shop/lounge/bar employees work there because it is a cigar establishment and, they too, enjoy the product.

Cigar smoke is almost never inhaled, and is generally found to be, at least, "somewhat pleasing" -- even to non-smokers should they accidently somehow stumble into a cigar friendly establishment. Plus most cigar smokers practice excellent oral hygeine to guard against the small risk of mouth and gum disease that could be caused by smoke.

Comparing cigar smokers with cigarette smokers is like comparing wine connoisseurs with a wino who lives under a bridge.

The cigar smokers I have met over the past ten years are, in almost every case, the most caring, giving, thoughtful, loving individuals I know. They come together in online forums, face-to-face "meet-ups" and "herfs", where lifetime friendships are made. Smoking a cigar with a friend causes one to relax, contemplate life and savor the moment. This is why cigar smokers as a group, tend to live longer, have less health issues and more real friends.

Lumping cigar smoking into a general discussion of smoking bans makes no sense to me, and any ban should include exceptions to allow for the continuation of legal businesses that are specifically in business for cigar smokers and not hurting anyone else.

OK, let the bashing begin... ;-)

No bashing here. I know that cigar and cigarette smokers are in different leagues. The problem with cigarette smokers is that it is a nasty addiction and those who smoke heavily will do whatever they can to smoke, including thinking nothing of exposing non smokers and children. Cigarette smokers are generally slobs as well. Not all of them but many. They throw their butts out the window while driving, think nothing of throwing them out wherever they are, in the street, sidewalk, etc.

[ergohead]

Originally Posted by Peter B

No bashing here. I know that cigar and cigarette smokers are in different leagues. The problem with cigarette smokers is that it is a nasty addiction and those who smoke heavily will do whatever they can to smoke, including thinking nothing of exposing non smokers and children. Cigarette smokers are generally slobs as well.

Hey, who ya callin a slob?

barack obama cigarette photo - Google Search

The Elites

Monica Lewinsky and Bill Clinton Cigars


YouTube - Rush Limbaugh: Cigar tax veto

[momof11]

As a former smoker I can understand the mindset of "wanting my rights" as a smoker. It wasn't until I quit (over 20 years ago now) that I realized how nasty the habit really is. Smoking pollutes the enviroment of everyone who has the misfortune of being in the area. Your smoking in a building takes away my right to breath clean air. We lived in California with its smoking bans in restaurants, it was quite a shock to be sat in a "non-smoking" section in a Michigan restaurant that was 3 feet away from a smoking section. It is not a rights issue, it is a health issue. My dad died of COPD due to smoking, my mom died of cardiac arrest due to COPD caused by smoking and my 45 year old brother died as a result of heart disease due to you guessed it smoking. My kids have had asthma attacks because of being in a restaurant that allowed smoking. The attitude that I should leave so someone can stink and affect the air quality in a building isn't a rights issue- if it was then what about my right to breath clean air?

Bad law is written because people don't have the sense to act responsibly. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out smoking stinks and the second hand smoke is dangerous. Finding a 112 year old man that smokes notwithstanding, I lost my 53 year old father, my 60 year old mother and my 45 year old brother to smoking.

[Into the stars]

First of all I want to say this: I am a non smoker. But it seems that there is some hypocrisy going on here from both sides!

Um...

Alcohol is a "legal" product

Narcotics, if they are prescribed to you, are a "legal" product

and if you ingest too much of them you may die or if you get into a car and drive you may kill someone.

And if you are caught with them under the influence you will be sent to prison or drug rehabilitation.

My point is these can be more detrimental than smoking, yet no one seems to make a stink about them!

Is it because alcohol and drugs don't necessarily affect another person directly? Whereas the smoke trailing off of a cigarette does; the smell, the toxins?

That seems kind of selfish IMO. As long as it doesn't affect anyone else, it shouldn't matter right??? I guess I don't get how EVERYONE thinks that they have to have things THEIR way ALL of the time. If you don't want to eat in a restaurant with some, then the answer is simple: Don't go there!

I know people who whine and complain about sitting in a restaurant with "kids crying and making noise." And this bothers them. And yet these are the same people who will get drunk at a bar and make fools out of themselves by "crying and making noise"

Can't everyone just stop complaining about EVERYTHING! Geesh! There is room for all kinds of people on this planet.

What ever happened to the saying "People in glass houses shouldn't throw stone?" When you are perfect, then you can judge!

And if something doesn't agree with you (such as a smoky restaurant) then don't go! It's very simple!

[walls]

the ignorance of the public schooled on this forum is astounding, it IS a property rights issue, and all the whining to the contrary will not change a thing........if you don't like it,get your 2/3 congressional majority send it to the states for ratification, and amend the constitution...............or SHUT UP.

[zakian]

Originally Posted by Peter B

Newsflash! Mr. Harding is a chain smoker. Another person who cannot comprehend the detrimental effects of cigarette smoke on non-smoker. That was a funny quote, " Since no individual is forced to work or dine at any particular establishment, and plenty of choice exists between smoking and non-smoking ones". What an idiot. It's great, going to a bowling alley, and coming home smelling like cigarette smoke. As for having a choice of where to go? In Traverse City, Timber Lanes is the only large bowling alley within probably 60 -80 miles so don't spew that crapola "oh, the non smokers can go to a different establishment. Enough of this stupid rhetoric "property rights, personal rights", and all that other crapola. It is a health issue, pure and simple. Uninformed and uneducated folks will eventually comprehend this fact. But, until then, we still have the 15% of the population that smokes, dictating the air we breathe in rural, regressive parts of our great country.

Poor baby. I have to check this out a little more but since Mich legalized the smoking of Marijuana (wierd huh?)for ppl with Hep C, if I can legally smoke anywhere I want, I'll try to make sure I blow the smoke in your area. It's LEGAL. Maybe catching a buzz will keep you whinners quiet.

[allbusiness]

Originally Posted by walls

the ignorance of the public schooled on this forum is astounding, it IS a property rights issue, and all the whining to the contrary will not change a thing........if you don't like it,get your 2/3 congressional majority send it to the states for ratification, and amend the constitution...............or SHUT UP.

I couldn't agree more. it is a property right argument -- but the argument has been lost in something like 30 states and it's heading here. I choose to work for excemptions, since the smoking ban is a foregone conclusion, in my opinion.

The public marches along with these things like lemmings until all of our rights are gone. Loss of personal property use due to "endangered" species, the global warming scare, mandatory seatbelts/helmets, etc. It goes on and on...

[walls]

sadly.... agreed.

[Alex Libman]

If you think second-hand smoke is bad, don't go to establishments that allow smoking, and the problem takes care of itself. Prohibition, on the other hand, is awful for the economy: it destroys jobs, raises taxes, puts otherwise-productive citizens in prison, encourages people to leave your city / state / country for a less totalitarian one, and so on. No matter what you think second hand smoke does to your life expectancy, fascism is many times worse!